To think 11 is not too young to travel on a train alone?

[Tellmeifimwrong]

Please settle a debate! Happy to hear all opinions.

Is 11 years old, starting y7 in Sept, too young to take a one hour train journey, without parents but with a slightly younger child? Put on at one end by an adult and met at the other end by an adult, with a phone and data, and train staff informed? No behavioural problems or SEN.

Sadly the reason we know Millie Dowler's name and the fact that it sticks in our minds is because it is so incredibly rare!

@Coffeetree I am sorry your parents and school let you down. It was not my experience at all and unless you are much older than me I am surprised. My school was not at all forward thinking, but it did teach around this issue.

@AskMeMore I’m not saying to stop children developing independence at an appropriate age.

My view has consistently been that primary age children shouldn’t be on public transport (or roaming the streets for hours) on their own.

And they certainly shouldn’t be responsible for younger kids - you wouldn’t pay a babysitter aged 11 to take care of others would you? And it’s not advised to leave a child under 12 alone in the safety of their own home, so why ok to put them on transport with strangers with no supervision?

Each to their own, but that is my opinion.

If you put a child in a risky situation, and then tell them, "Nothing bad will happen to you as long as you're sensible". What do you think they'll learn? Will they tell you if someone messes with them?

@Robinni Can you link to that- not to leave a child under 12 on their own? Unless things have changed, it certainly wasn't there when I contributed to advice on this as a professional.

My 11 year old couldn't cope with that

And it’s not advised to leave a child under 12 alone in the safety of their own home

It's perfectly legal to do this. In fact, there is no legal lower limit. You judge each child on their ability which does not necessarily correspond with age.

Plenty of kids are getting the bus / train to school in year 7 (age 11 to 12). And even have a door key to let themselves into their home.

And it’s not advised to leave a child under 12 alone in the safety of their own home,

sorry but this is not true.

You are advised (by NSPCC I think) not to leave your 12 year odl alone OVERNIGHT.
That is a very different thing.

It is quite standard (although not something I would choose to do if I had a choice) for secondary school aged kids to come home form school to an empty house, and parents arrive home at 5/6 pm. So kids are alone for an hour of two.

But I agree with you that primary aged kids are probably not ready for this train journey.

agreed - if I told my 17yo son to take my 12yo son on the train, I'd make sure he knew he had to make sure he was safe etc, BUT I'd be wary of saying he was "responsible" for him, as he'd never ever ever get over it if anything bad happened to him, and would blame himself (I'm talking being hurt or hit etc)

Nobody thinks leaving a 12 year old overnight at home alone is okay.

I wouldn’t let an 11 year old go on train alone or with 1 year younger child at all. Risks for me would be too high. I would be worried about them going to the toilet and being followed for example. Also sometimes you get drunk people on trains etc. lots of possibilities I would be no way comfortable with.

It’s nspcc advice but not legally binding.

https://www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/in-the-home/home-alone/#

It doesn’t seem to mirror real life to me as there’s no wrap around or much hol care for yr 7 who could be under 12 for a full school yr if they are summer born.
Likewise their don’t leave a child with an under 16. I know some very sensible 14/15 teen girls, first aid, volunteer with young children weekly etc and would certainly recommend them for babysitting.

@Robinni It's quite sad that you are still so upset about this now. You can call is all you want to, but although none of us can control how other people behave, we can make judgements at the time and learn from them.

Making silly and sarcy comments about my superior parents is not helping you or me.

Yes your mum was wrong to agree to phoning this man. If you deny that, it's not facing up to things.

FWIW I too was assaulted on a busy bus and I was sitting on the aisle seat. The man - well dressed in an expensive coat- rubbed himself against me as the bus went round a roundabout. At first I thought it was an accident, but then realised it wasn't as I felt his erection. I have also been groped in the street by a man asking me the time who then lunged at me.

So you don't have a monopoly on assault and TBH a phone call with an elderly man who wanted to turn it into sex chat was pretty minor.

@OliveOilly I’ll not dispute your professional qualifications.

The NSPCC advise that:

• children under the age of 12 are usually not mature enough to be left alone

https://childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/home-alone/

We would always recommend leaving a child younger than 12 years old with family, a friend or in childcare.
https://www.nspcc.org.uk/keeping-children-safe/in-the-home/home-alone/#age

The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) advises that:

• babies, toddlers and very young children should never be left alone
• children under the age of 12 are rarely mature enough to cope in an emergency and should not be left at home alone for a long period of time

https://www.gov.uk/law-on-leaving-your-child-home-alone

NSPCC cater to over protective parents with this advice.

That's why you don't say that. You go through the scenarios and talk through how to deal with it. Transferable skills.

They certainly do.

Exactly! I was in my teens getting a bus to school and had a number of horrible encounters like there being loads of space on the bus but a man sitting next to me etc.

What about them being followed to the toilet etc.

I would definitely not allow an 11yo on train alone or with a sibling. No way.

@Jonei I did not get into the legalities.

I said it is not advised.

Which is true.

See NSPCC and Gov links above. 😊

The NSPCC advice is far from sensible. It also says that children up to age 12 should not walk to school alone. Really?

What kind of world are they leading children into with that sort of 'advice'?

The law does not say an age when you can leave a child on their own, but it’s an offence to leave a child alone if it places them at risk.

Use your judgement on how mature your child is before you decide to leave them alone, for example at home or in a car.

From your own link.

Between phone tracking apps and train apps (real time) it's fairly easy nowadays to see where/ when someone will arrive, and should there be any issues be able to offer advice from a distance if eg help with getting a bus/ another train if there are service issues / or giving them revised meeting points.

There are phone numbers on the trains that advise numbers to call if there are problems.

When my family of all ages travel (youngest 12 now) - if there are problems they just message someone at home (in front of a computer) and get transport updates/revised instructions.

So my youngest was stuck the other day without his usual transport (after school club change of venue). As it would have taken longer for someone to collect him we "spoke" and I could quite easily tell him which bus was coming, where to get it from (at a run) and where he would be met. He will now know this for the next time!

It's a far cry from my school days (from 11) when I was on a commuter line into London, during a period of bomb scares and pay phones!

These are primary age kids admittedly on a route they've done before but not regularly and it's an hours train journey not that close by.

I think it's too much slightly too early - though I do think it's a grey area/judgment call. If it all runs smoothly it will be fine if there are any problems a phone call away not able to do anything or get there quickly but heavily rely upon adults around them may be just to little of a safety net.

My teens were up the town by themselves at 11 - but they'd started secondary and grown up that little bit - they've been to nearby city and town by train and bus by mid teens. DH and I were secondary school age before we started getting buses and DH trains to nearby cities and towns.

I do agree there's a sperate issue of not allowing children/teens to develop skills as DD1 was recently the only one at her conformation university offer day there by herself - having navigated the whole journey by herself as you'd expect.

NSPCC 12 thing is bonkers - DD1 is August born and was 12 just before she entered y8 - second year of secondary. While I wouldn't have wanted to leave her home all day by herself she could certainly manage a few hours or very least 30-40 minutes while we picked up younger kids - and given lack of childcare options by secondary many parents were in similar boat.

When people turn to the nspcc for advice, rather than completing their own risk assessment / judgement, I always think of this. (Link below, trigger warning for the easily distressed)

The nspcc should get their own house in order before dispensing advice to over protective parents. Imo.

https://uncommongroundmedia.com/nspcc-employee-films-himself-masturbating-at-work/?utm_content=cmp-true

@OliveOilly I certainly do not have a monopoly on sexual assault. And have had other more serious incidences which probably contributes to my being cautious. But to give further exemplars would detract from the subject content of the thread. It is not a game of one upping each other by the way - any sort of assault is wrong regardless of the nature of it.

The point of my initial comment with this example was to show that sex predators are out and about in the open on public transport. Which you have given further credence to by way of your own example.

Thanks.