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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to ask if literally anyone feels they are paid adequate child maintenance? I'm feeling desperate

282 replies

hadenlugff · 21/04/2023 15:39

Just that really. I’m paid 570 but it won’t even cover half of the nursery fees let alone wrap around care and everything else.

Not only that but it’s not even guaranteed so I can’t rely on it… and that’s fucking awful as I should be able to have some
assurance that I won’t be left entirely to raise a child that is half someone else’s.

I know people have it worse, it’s not a race to then bottom. I’m just dreading dc starting nursery in autumn and dont know how I will manage. Is anyone happy with what they get for maintenance? Ever? It feels so shit.

OP posts:
Flowersun6 · 25/04/2023 16:14

IAmCinderella · 25/04/2023 15:46

YOU started it. Don't dish what you can't give.

How old are you?

This is a discussion.

People may disagree with you and point out flaws in your reasoning. That does not mean it's ok for you to start making personal comments about the lives specific posters who you know nothing about. Why do you have to insult people who don't agree with you? How childish.

You started insulting me first. I gave it back. Why were you insulting me first? You started getting personal to me first!

I don't need you to point out anything not do I expect you to agree with me you have utter cheek playing victim because I told you straight after you rudely started making DIGS, personal digs at me.

Whiskeypowers · 25/04/2023 16:26

This debate is only raging because there are a critical mass of men who are abject failures as fathers and also the for the most part the CMS is a joke. absent feckless fathers or men who can’t see their children and don’t want to pay absolutely should pay the price in every sense. Their behaviour should be treated as criminal because for the most part it is. It would serve them right to be prosecuted and face the consequences in terms of their jobs and lifestyle etc. Society should condemn fathers that damage their children. The legacy of their behaviour is colossal.

Funny though that there are always a few morons who try and divert responsibility to the mothers left to do it all alone.

I’m just hoping not many of you ranting about poor choices / should have picked a better man etc are single mothers. These men are laughing at you even more than the women on the receiving end of their appalling behaviour in the first place.

IAmCinderella · 25/04/2023 17:07

You started insulting me first. I gave it back. Why were you insulting me first? You started getting personal to me first!

This is not true. I engaged with your argument and said I disagree. I think the closest I came to any type of "insult" was to say that what you were suggesting was reasonable (that if a man shrugs his shoulders and says it "doesn't work for him" or "isn't realistic" for him to pay 50% of his child's living costs then that's not good enough and that anybody who thinks that's ok - including you, if you do - is setting the bar of minimum acceptable requirements for parents far too low. This is not a personal insult, it was me disagreeing with your argument.

You then proceeded to make personal attacks about how I should have chosen a better man to be my children's father - i.e. victim blaming and shaming me and other women for situations you know nothing about - and how I shouldn't have "had multiple children" and with him - again victim blaming women although irrelevant in any case as I told you, given I have two only and they are twins and the abuse began afterwards.

I think any woman attacking other women personally in this way simply because they didn't like someone challenging their view should be ashamed. Disagreeing with an opinion is not the same as making personal insults or shaming other mothers in general with disparaging comments implying they are responsible for the behaviour of bad fathers. "You started it" just sums it up: you don't like someone challenging your view, robustly but respectfully, and think this justifies you resorting to personal insults. It doesn't. It's childish behaviour,

I don't need you to point out anything not do I expect you to agree with me you have utter cheek playing victim because I told you straight after you rudely started making DIGS, personal digs at me.

Play victim? What? People are allowed to speak about their experiences. Why are you trying to shut other women down?

You are the person who has been making personal comments and judging people whose lives you know nothing about, not me.

IAmCinderella · 25/04/2023 17:09

Whiskeypowers · 25/04/2023 16:26

This debate is only raging because there are a critical mass of men who are abject failures as fathers and also the for the most part the CMS is a joke. absent feckless fathers or men who can’t see their children and don’t want to pay absolutely should pay the price in every sense. Their behaviour should be treated as criminal because for the most part it is. It would serve them right to be prosecuted and face the consequences in terms of their jobs and lifestyle etc. Society should condemn fathers that damage their children. The legacy of their behaviour is colossal.

Funny though that there are always a few morons who try and divert responsibility to the mothers left to do it all alone.

I’m just hoping not many of you ranting about poor choices / should have picked a better man etc are single mothers. These men are laughing at you even more than the women on the receiving end of their appalling behaviour in the first place.

Absolutely agree.

And sadly some of these claim they are single mothers. 🙄

Flowersun6 · 25/04/2023 17:34

IAmCinderella · 24/04/2023 17:40

I don't see any logic in setting the bar so high. People can't pay what they don't have if someone paid £350 and that was all they could afford I'd accept that it is unfair you are absolutely right. You can't get blood out of a stone though.

All they could afford based on what? Like with tax, the provision of 50% of your child's living costs should not be optional. Your disposable income to fund the rest of your life is what is left AFTER you've done that. If that makes you not have a very nice lifestyle, tough. Why should a single parent who is doing all of the work of actually raising the children have to do that and also pay the other parent's share of costs? Don't like the idea of paying your half of your child's upbringing? Then don't have children.

If paying what they should means they can only afford to rent a room in an HMO then tough, that's what they need to do. They can do a part time degree or retrain to earn more. They have plenty of time on their hands, unlike the parent doing the parenting. Perhaps they should focus on earning more rather than starting new relationships and having yet more children. The idea that they should be able to say "oh, I'd be a bit poor if I paid my share so it's fine for me not to", and that society thinks this is acceptable is vile and needs to change.

The issue isn't setting the bar too high. It's that people like you set it far, far too low.

These were your words. People like me have a bar too low and hoe I am the issue. That is not disagreeing you were being insulting at best.

Your opinion doesn't trump others, I too have you a different angle to look from. You even suggested that a father should house share and another posted stated this isn't a reasonable solution. As I've said it's not just about money it's about EFFORT too.

I'm not sure why you can't see YOU were the offensive person first now your up in arms because I gave you the same tone you spoke to me I'm. Perhaps one should reflect on one self.....

IAmCinderella · 25/04/2023 19:09

Tes exactly. The point I made was about substance, that your comments and those like them are setting the bar for what is acceptable parenting much too low.

I also had an entire post where I stated clearly that obviously if parents are both providing a separate home, 50% of childcare, children living in each one 50% of the time so both parents doing 50% of actual parenting and by definition paying half of the costs because they look after and house the child(ren) for half of the time them that is different and no transfers of money either way should be necessary. I was explicit that my comments related to largely or completely absent parents who do little or no parenting so expect the resident parent to do most/ all parenting AND then are so useless and pathetic and irresponsible they can't or won't even pay 50% of their child(ren)'s living costs.

All of this I stated clearly if you had bothered to read it. None of it was a personal attack, i just disagreed with you.

You then started posting rude and personal comments and disparaging comments to me personally and about other women in general.

It's really tiresome. It would probably be best if you stop and have a rethink.

taxpayer1 · 25/04/2023 21:13

BibbleandSqwauk · 25/04/2023 16:10

@taxpayer1 nowhere have I or any of the other single mothers on here said we are perfect. However, facts are facts. We are doing the day in day out care for our children, which we assumed we'd be sharing with the fathers as we did not have a random shag with a stranger. We are also shouldering the vast majority of the cost, while taking a massive hit to our own long term careers and futures. Our exes are paying either diddly or the legal minimum and doing fuck all meaningful parenting. Certainly in my case, my ex chose to leave, move away and move in with his affair partner. He reduced his income. I would very happily hand him 50/50 but he doesn't want it. Please tell me WHY you think, given those objective facts, that I shouldn't feel that I am morally in the right and he's not.

And I quote "
IAmCinderella · Yesterday 16:36
And to top it all off put up with this endless crap vilifying single mothers.

We are the heroins, the responsible ones, the superhuman ones doing the job of two people. Society should put us up on a pedestal not constantly attack us and direct all of this spite at us."

BibbleandSqwauk · 25/04/2023 22:29

She said we are superheroes and heroines, not perfect. And she's not me so you haven't answered my question. Please do.

IAmCinderella · 26/04/2023 13:07

It is heroic to provide for, look after and raise children singlehandedly. That in no way equates to "perfect". It also in no way is a reason to criticise someone, that they're managing alone to do the work that is usually done by two people. Quite the opposite. Hence people being confused about your desire to attack such people and make nasty and baseless insinutations about them and random unfounded conjectures about their lives. Why exactly do you hate single mothers so much @taxpayer1 ? You appear on all such threads and spout such bile, you clearly seek them out. Ironically many of us probably pay significantly more tax than you do.

BibbleandSqwauk · 26/04/2023 14:54

Still waiting for @taxpayer1 to come and explain why exactly we SHOULDN'T be damn proud of what we do and seek to have it both acknowledged and respected. My ex hasn't taken the kids to school for 8 years. Our youngest has never, in her life, had the experience of both parents there at the gate, or a play or her dad taking her in, and never will. His phone contact is increasingly sporadic and he knows nothing of their daily lives in terms of what they do on a given day, what they are into. He always asks me for ideas for xmas and birthdays - as do his family. He doesn't know his own kids well enough to have ideas himself and he still talks to them as though they are the ages they are when he left. When they do come back from visits there are numerous complaints about how he doesn't listen to them, doesn't respect their choices or tastes with regard to food or outings, just expects them to do what he says. He is totally out of touch with them. But yeah, he's really hard done by losing that 20% of income every month 🙄

taxpayer1 · 26/04/2023 17:10

IAmCinderella · 26/04/2023 13:07

It is heroic to provide for, look after and raise children singlehandedly. That in no way equates to "perfect". It also in no way is a reason to criticise someone, that they're managing alone to do the work that is usually done by two people. Quite the opposite. Hence people being confused about your desire to attack such people and make nasty and baseless insinutations about them and random unfounded conjectures about their lives. Why exactly do you hate single mothers so much @taxpayer1 ? You appear on all such threads and spout such bile, you clearly seek them out. Ironically many of us probably pay significantly more tax than you do.

I don't hate anyone. You paying tax 🙄

taxpayer1 · 26/04/2023 17:11

BibbleandSqwauk · 26/04/2023 14:54

Still waiting for @taxpayer1 to come and explain why exactly we SHOULDN'T be damn proud of what we do and seek to have it both acknowledged and respected. My ex hasn't taken the kids to school for 8 years. Our youngest has never, in her life, had the experience of both parents there at the gate, or a play or her dad taking her in, and never will. His phone contact is increasingly sporadic and he knows nothing of their daily lives in terms of what they do on a given day, what they are into. He always asks me for ideas for xmas and birthdays - as do his family. He doesn't know his own kids well enough to have ideas himself and he still talks to them as though they are the ages they are when he left. When they do come back from visits there are numerous complaints about how he doesn't listen to them, doesn't respect their choices or tastes with regard to food or outings, just expects them to do what he says. He is totally out of touch with them. But yeah, he's really hard done by losing that 20% of income every month 🙄

I would like to hear the other side of the story. Your opinion about your heroic behavior may be skewed.

Whochangedmynamec · 26/04/2023 17:23

Only ever got half what I should have got, he agreed to take the kids eow but never did so I should have got more really. Trying to get more causes ww3 and hurts the kids. I often wonder if anyone thinks these men are stealing off us because we have to pay or go into debt while they do OK. But what can you do?

IAmCinderella · 26/04/2023 17:24

I don't hate anyone. You paying tax 🙄

Excuse me? I earn six figures. I pay plenty of tax. As do many other single parents. Quite clearly you are clueless.

cool4cats2020 · 26/04/2023 17:24

My ex pays zero (always has), and I end up 'lending' them money reguarly so our 3 kids get fed during their contact (every other weekend). So I guess that's effectively negative maintainence! Ex choses not to work or only works cash in hand jobs (probably in order to avoid maintenance), so officially ex has zero income, just universal credits.

On that basis, I'd say £570 a month for what sounds like one child is a decent amount, unless your ex is a very high earner?

familyissues12345 · 26/04/2023 17:34

I got £25 a week and not a penny more - no contribution towards clothing, school trips etc. Never took DS shopping for clothes himself. It took until DS was about 9/10 to start paying properly and even then would often miss weeks without so much as a sorry.
He ended paying last summer as DS finished A Levels. Said he'd continue the £25 a week to help with Uni accommodation and I've had one payment. I wouldn't mind so much, but I asked if he intended on helping at all, as we were working out budgeting for accommodation (I know he doesn't have to legally pay) and he said absolutely. So we've been left footing the full cost - we would have chosen a cheaper room if he'd said no.

He doesn't even visit DS, or offer to pick him up. So DS has to pay for fuel from his student finance to see him. He stopped doing any travel as soon as DS learnt (he lives 2 hours away!) suffice to say he doesn't see much of him.

I think he has always really begrudged paying anything towards DS. We live a comfortable life and I think he's always looked at us and thought we didn't need his money so why should he pay. Any money I did get went into a separate account and was saved towards whatever DS needed, never went anywhere near our bills etc

BibbleandSqwauk · 26/04/2023 17:38

@taxpayer1 well sadly I'm not going to ask him to comment but I gave you a summary of the objective facts upthread. We married, planned children together, earned equally until mat leave and then I went part time (he later also did and we shared care). We shared our lives, made decisions together until, with my encouragement he started a hobby, met someone and whoooosh....out the door. If you asked him he'd say he'd been miserable for ages, had never wanted any of it, was manipulated and pushed into it. Funny, I don't remember having a gun to his head when he proposed, or signed house contracts or had unprotected sex. If you've heard of "the cheaters script" , his "side" is basically that. After he split he moved a distance and established Eow only contact which has since dwindled further. How many more ways are you going to desperately try and find fault with me? Why does it matter so much to you that I must not be in the right here?

taxpayer1 · 26/04/2023 17:58

BibbleandSqwauk · 26/04/2023 17:38

@taxpayer1 well sadly I'm not going to ask him to comment but I gave you a summary of the objective facts upthread. We married, planned children together, earned equally until mat leave and then I went part time (he later also did and we shared care). We shared our lives, made decisions together until, with my encouragement he started a hobby, met someone and whoooosh....out the door. If you asked him he'd say he'd been miserable for ages, had never wanted any of it, was manipulated and pushed into it. Funny, I don't remember having a gun to his head when he proposed, or signed house contracts or had unprotected sex. If you've heard of "the cheaters script" , his "side" is basically that. After he split he moved a distance and established Eow only contact which has since dwindled further. How many more ways are you going to desperately try and find fault with me? Why does it matter so much to you that I must not be in the right here?

I couldn't care less about your particular situation. I care about exposing the soap opera of most single women (aka martyrs, heroines, blah, blah working) on this site. Everyone I know (all 1% top earners) has a horror story with a career single mom and I am entitled to share my experience without being called an idiot by the misandrist crowd.

IAmCinderella · 26/04/2023 18:12

Everyone I know (all 1% top earners) has a horror story with a career single mom and I am entitled to share my experience without being called an idiot by the misandrist crowd.

Give it a rest. It would be a very strange and boring life if "everyone you know" is the top 1% of earners. You have no friends or family members who aren't? Not sure why you find single mothers being in the top 1% of earners a "horror story" but I know lots who are just like I am so I can't imagine that you know many people in this salary bracket if you know none. It's not misandrist to suggest men should pay half of the cost of raising their children. It appears to be rather more likely that you have misogynist views and likely know few high achieving professional people (including women) at all, and think that you can look down on single mothers, make ridiculous generalisations about them, and also judge anybody who does happen to earn less than you as not worthy of respect. None of that reflects very well on you.

MeetMyCat · 26/04/2023 19:26

When DH was with his first wife, he worked long hours, earned good money,and was classed as a good provider and a good father, and enabled his wife to be a SAHM.

Once they were divorced, he obviously had to re-house himself, he had an access rota that meant he could work fewer hours, therefore earning less, and yet his ex expected top dollar maintenance payments plus a good chunk of her housing costs paid too - and there simply wasn’t enough money to go round. His reduced earnings now had to pay for 1.5 households plus maintenance and it was mathematically impossible. He therefore lost his ‘good father’ badge. I still don’t know what he could have done differently

Seas164 · 26/04/2023 19:36

I care about exposing the soap opera of most single women

@taxpayer1 What an odd little mission

katiejames2015 · 26/04/2023 19:55

I wonder how many of these mums would like it if it was the other way round , and the dad actually was the primary caregiver. Would the mothers then be told to retrain or get a better job to pay half the cost for housing plus other expenses for their child plus paying for their own house.

MeetMyCat · 26/04/2023 19:58

katiejames2015 · 26/04/2023 19:55

I wonder how many of these mums would like it if it was the other way round , and the dad actually was the primary caregiver. Would the mothers then be told to retrain or get a better job to pay half the cost for housing plus other expenses for their child plus paying for their own house.

Very good point!

MeetMyCat · 26/04/2023 20:31

If paying what they should means they can only afford to rent a room in an HMO then tough

@IAmCinderella and how is a father, in a room in a HMO, supposed to have any sort of overnight stays from his children? You’d then be complaining he wasn’t doing his fair share of parenting.

Seas164 · 26/04/2023 22:12

katiejames2015 · 26/04/2023 19:55

I wonder how many of these mums would like it if it was the other way round , and the dad actually was the primary caregiver. Would the mothers then be told to retrain or get a better job to pay half the cost for housing plus other expenses for their child plus paying for their own house.

I think the point is that if the care is shared, 50/50, there need not be any exchange of money as the situation is equal and allows each parent to earn and care for the children equally.

When this is not the case, then maintenence should be paid to compensate the primary caregiver who is doing the lions share of the parenting and help them care for the children.

It's such a weird notion that single mums are moneygrabbers and gold diggers, there's a really easy way out of handing over a penny with a clear conscience and it's just pitching in equally with the care of your children.