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Original poster

I don't believe we've been to the moon and SpaceXs failure further convinces me.

610 replies

MrsRobinsonsHandprints · 20/04/2023 17:30

I know I've posted this before and the majority of you think I'm batty, but I don't think we've landed on the moon.

3 billion USD, a giant leap in technological advances and yet it can't even launch.

OP posts:
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Woodywoodpeckerharrison · 20/04/2023 23:29

@Sturnip thank you

Daftasabroom · 20/04/2023 23:29

Woodywoodpeckerharrison · 20/04/2023 23:17

The return of 5 times thing that people are getting a bit excited over - yes there were repeat visits but in close succession. The query I believe is focused on why not in recent history (50 years) has there not been a return? I think people are too focused on tripping others up to focus on the real question here. Was it really about money? Was it really about no real need? Risk? Really? Why only the US?

The moon landings were a demonstration by the US that if they can hit the moon with a whopping big rocket they could hit anywhere in the USSR. They only needed to prove the point so many times.

Woodywoodpeckerharrison · 20/04/2023 23:31

I also take the view that the failed mission today can't be compared to anything else. It's objective is something completely new. Elon Musk is exciting. Ok he's a 'lively' character to put it politely but that man is putting his money and intelligence to good use.

Woodywoodpeckerharrison · 20/04/2023 23:32

@Daftasabroom I live this take on it and yes I agree!!

Woodywoodpeckerharrison · 20/04/2023 23:32

*love

noodlezoodle · 20/04/2023 23:33

MrsRobinsonsHandprints · 20/04/2023 23:05

I mean seriously, what does this add to the discussion? Why post this, to shame me?

The majority of replies are like this, empty and pointless. Which is how conversation tends to go these days which is a shame.

I've been looking at the counter arguments but I still haven't seen anything that makes me believe. I agree with a pp, if they had crashed and died on the moon maybe, but to take off and return again...nah.

I also don't see how modern unmanned robots of Chinese origin prove anything other than we now have the technology to put unmanned robots on the moon.

Show quote history

Why? Because it's so bloody frustrating. I don't expect to change your mind and I'm not trying to shame you, I just cannot understand how something that is so well document and has been proven time and again is still subject to 'debate'.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion on unsettled matters and on how they feel about things. But some things are just true - they are scientific facts, they are proven, and those things are not up for debate. Moon landings, human influence on climate change, vaccine efficacy - no, your opinion on these is not just as valid as anyone else's because they are scientific facts.

There are countless links on this thread to debunkings of the conspiracy theory but you still aren't convinced, which leads me to believe there is in fact nothing that would convince you, short of landing you yourself on the moon.

And not only is this frustrating but it's actually dangerous. Is anyone damaged by you not believing in the moon landings? Not really... but conspiratorial thinking of that kind is the same as believing Andrew Wakefield had a point about the MMR vaccine, and it's thanks to people taken in by that that we have children dying of measles again.

So pardon me if I'm a bit fed up of this bullshit, but that's why.

That is of course assuming you really believe this and are not just winding us all up. Which frankly I would prefer.

Original poster
MrsRobinsonsHandprints · 20/04/2023 23:34

Highdaysandholidays1 · 20/04/2023 21:25

@notimagain I agree, there are a lot of very shitty blurry images and then these amazing stellar ones- so they are either the best of the bunch, or they are faked, it is quite hard to see how they would have taken such amazing shots with chest height cameras and some of the others are really at odd angles.

The other evidence of moon landings is more compelling than the photos, I think.

I don't think people are wrong to question though, at the time there really was not much more than the photos in the newspapers and some grainy footage for most people.

The media feeds us crap all the time and it's natural then to realise this and become suspicious. The Russian press say the Russians are doing amazingly well in the war, the Western press constantly reports that the Ukrainians are on the verge of winning- if either of these things were true why are they still all stuck there fighting? Covid also showed us that mass press is incredibly manipulative, at one point anyone who thought Covid came from a lab was laughed at on this site, but since then the theory has been comprehensively studied, and the jury is still out.

Good to question constantly, I don't know why people are being mocked for doing so.

This is interesting and I agree even with 14 hour media, and SM both the Russians and the West are reporting that the war is being won and both sides seem to believe it.

And covid has certainly had both sides of tin pottery.

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Daftasabroom · 20/04/2023 23:44

@MrsRobinsonsHandprints this was a test launch. SpaceX and Elon Musk are on record that they expected an explosion or failure of some sort. They will have collected a huge amount of data and the next test launch will likely last longer.

SinnerBoy · 21/04/2023 00:01

mynameiscalypso · Today 18:07

I thought the rocket launch today was a success?

If you consider exploding 30 seconds after lift off a success.

DifferenceEngines · 21/04/2023 00:06

Woodywoodpeckerharrison · 20/04/2023 23:17

The return of 5 times thing that people are getting a bit excited over - yes there were repeat visits but in close succession. The query I believe is focused on why not in recent history (50 years) has there not been a return? I think people are too focused on tripping others up to focus on the real question here. Was it really about money? Was it really about no real need? Risk? Really? Why only the US?

Why would we return to the moon at such an expense? The point was to prove that they could do it, and once they had done it, why would they continue doing it? We are only doing it now because Musk is driving it.

DifferenceEngines · 21/04/2023 00:07

SinnerBoy · 21/04/2023 00:01

mynameiscalypso · Today 18:07

I thought the rocket launch today was a success?

If you consider exploding 30 seconds after lift off a success.

It's a test launch, not a mission. This is how science works. Test, see what happens, learn from it.

Highdaysandholidays1 · 21/04/2023 00:07

My own thinking on this is that it was near a miracle that those 6 manned moon missions got back with everyone alive (if indeed they all went). If you look at the list of spacecraft-related deaths, there's quite a few, and in missions to the moon, about 1/3 or more fail, and lots have partial problems. Perhaps after Challenger and the other rocket exploded with the astronauts on board which was the 80's, there was just no more appetite for those very high-risk missions for decades. It was really shocking.

SinnerBoy · 21/04/2023 00:07

Musk is driving it, but the American Government is paying for most of it.

DifferenceEngines · 21/04/2023 00:16

SinnerBoy · 21/04/2023 00:07

Musk is driving it, but the American Government is paying for most of it.

Well yes, but he was at least partially the catalyst for it to all start up again. There was nothing driving it before.

Westfacing · 21/04/2023 00:20

The Soviet Union, the first into space, never doubted that the US beat them to the moon - don't you think they would have cast some doubt if they thought for a minute it was a hoax?

SinnerBoy · 21/04/2023 00:20

True, but he likes to give the impression that the whole thing comes out of his pocket money.

AliceOlive · 21/04/2023 00:34

Westfacing · 21/04/2023 00:20

The Soviet Union, the first into space, never doubted that the US beat them to the moon - don't you think they would have cast some doubt if they thought for a minute it was a hoax?

They admitted it in 1989?

https://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/18/us/russians-finally-admit-they-lost-race-to-moon.html

I don’t personally question the moon landing. But people state so many things as fact or proof without any support.

AliceOlive · 21/04/2023 01:32

Mmm that’s not what I thought actually.

Sturnip · 21/04/2023 01:55

AliceOlive · 21/04/2023 00:34

They admitted it in 1989?

https://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/18/us/russians-finally-admit-they-lost-race-to-moon.html

I don’t personally question the moon landing. But people state so many things as fact or proof without any support.

Show quote history

They never denied that the US made it to the moon, they just denied (until 1989) that Russia was racing against the U.S. to do so.

Basically the “I didn’t fancy him anyway” defence, before later admitting they did.

EveryWitchWaybutLoose · 21/04/2023 02:02

I've been looking at the counter arguments but I still haven't seen anything that makes me believe.

I don’t know what’s worse in this statement: the sheer ignorance or the arrogance.

Or maybe it’s just stupid talking.

sst1234 · 21/04/2023 02:02

Sparklesocks · 20/04/2023 17:36

What do you want to achieve from this thread? Do you want people to try and convince you otherwise? You can believe whatever you like, no skin off my bum.

Yet you opened the thread and commented.

EveryWitchWaybutLoose · 21/04/2023 02:06

Should have bolded @MrsRobinsonsHandprints statement:

She takes the biscuit for arrogance born out of ignorance. Because all those thousands of astrophysicists and engineers and mathematicians with PhDs and do on, oh yes, they’re all lying. Some ignorant little person has examined all the “counter-arguments” and just can’t believe.

GoldenAye · 21/04/2023 02:20

@MrsRobinsonsHandprints

Are you also a flat-earther? Apologies if you've already answered this.

Original poster
MrsRobinsonsHandprints · 21/04/2023 07:25

Daftasabroom · 20/04/2023 23:25

Your original hypothesis was that the SpaceX test flight proved moon landings were impossible. But at the same time you acknowledge we have the technology to land on the moon.

Show quote history

No it 'further convinces' which isn't the same as prove.

The technology now to send unmanned rovers etc is much more likely.

OP posts:
Original poster
MrsRobinsonsHandprints · 21/04/2023 07:36

EveryWitchWaybutLoose · 21/04/2023 02:06

Should have bolded @MrsRobinsonsHandprints statement:

She takes the biscuit for arrogance born out of ignorance. Because all those thousands of astrophysicists and engineers and mathematicians with PhDs and do on, oh yes, they’re all lying. Some ignorant little person has examined all the “counter-arguments” and just can’t believe.

It is very weird how defensive you are, how keen you are to be derogatory to me.

In history there have been countless times where the establishment demanded acceptance and then another idea has superceded it (earthcentric/heliocentric, flat earth)
I also haven't said it definitely isn't true- rather I don't believe it, I'm just chatting on a forum, and there have been some very interesting counter arguments that I am currently working through.

As for the Wakefield/MMR theories need to be challenged, the moon doesn't matter but replies saying 'stupid talking' etc make people double down, it is no wonder people become fixed in their view.

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