To think that sex and gender are the same thing?

[StNinian]

I don't buy into the distinction many people make between the two terms nowadays. "Gender" was never a word used to describe how one feels/identifies behaves until recently. It has long been synonymous with "sex". Just curious to see if anyone else agrees with me.

Let's be honest, how many of us actually feel like we have an internal sense of gender?

I suspect it is very rare indeed among people who haven't been taught at school that they should have a gender identity.

I just don't understand why my 'gender' has to change just because I choose to wear masculine looking clothes or cut my hair short or take up football?! I am still a female.

What's wrong with male and female?

Not me.

And even if I did have a gender identity it wouldn't be the same one trans women have.

I understand what you mean, but I also disagree. You can be a masculine woman (“tomboy” if you like) but still be 100% female?

@moveoverye

"You can be a masculine woman (“tomboy” if you like) but still be 100% female?"

++++

Correct- you can be a masculine female but you are still female it doesn't make you male.

As a previous poster neatly summarised it:
Sex is biological and is male or female
Gender is a social construct as is masculine/ feminine and varies across cultures.

The confusion and problem I see is when people refer to man or woman are they talking about sex or gender?

Sex: Biology - male or female, man or woman, boy or girl.

Gender (1): a polite euphemism for sex

Gender (2): in feminism - masculinity and femininity. A set of different kinds of practices and codified behaviours and systems that ritualise male domination and female subordination.

Gender (3): in queer theory and sexology - the idea that you can 'identify' as a man or woman, both, neither or something else, regardless of biology. Like a sexed soul. They claim it also has nothing to do with sex role stereotypes (Gender (2)) but that's not very convincing from the behaviour I have seen or the history of the term 'gender identity'. Invented by John Money in the 1960's who believed that by forcing a boy to adopt submissive sexual positions with his twin brother he could convince the boy he was a girl.

You can choose to change your gender but it's not possible to change your sex

My DH was a biologist for a govt. agency in Queensland.

Banned words in searches in govt. computers included 'sex' (which this just autocorrected to 'sec') 🤷🏻‍♀️. For Biologists

I think people use gender because 'sex' sounds 'crude', but the time is well upon us where we must use words carefully...

No.
Sex is male/female.
Gender is cultural stereotypes associated with sex - masculinity and femininity.

Man/Woman IMO is related to sex.

A man is an adult human male.
A woman is an adult human female.

The confusion and problem I see is when people refer to man or woman are they talking about sex or gender?

They are the same to me. You can only be 1) male or 2) female.

Why is the need for any more genders anyway?

You can choose to change your gender but it's not possible to change your sex

See, I don't think you can (or need to) change your gender.

What's wrong with male or female? Just be who you are!

However a feminine male is never going to be female and a masculine female is never going to be male.

Exactly, males are males and females are females. They can dress up however they like.

You are not only being very unreasonable, OP, you are incredibly ill-informed.

the use of the word sex to primarily mean sexual intercourse is also relatively modern. Eg Jane Austen used the word to mean the male or female class in her novels and no one fainted at Elizabeth Bennett declaring her opinions of the female sex.

"If a man is “feminine” or has “feminine traits” or wears a dress, this doesn’t make him have a female gender."

I'd perhaps say "Despite whether a man has a propensity towards more stereotypical feminine traits; he is still a man".

I do like the trans argument that 'gender is a construct'; because it makes it easier to ask 'Then, how can I misgender you?' 🤔

Sex is real. Gender is made up (so can be whatever you want it to be).

Being made up, it's also nonsense, which is how we got into all this mess in the first place.

I'm not sure you're understanding. And you've left out the – pertinent – last line of that post, which is 'Whatever label is used he's still and always a man in a frock.'

The poster agrees with you that 'he is male regardless of how he dresses'.
This man's SEX is male. His GENDER may be whatever he says, as that's a socially constructed idea.

YABU. While they may well have been conflated, they do not mean the same thing.

Treating them as though they are the same is what the idiots at Stonewall etc wanted - and it’s been an utter disaster for public policy.

Sex and gender are different.

The poster agrees with you that 'he is male regardless of how he dresses'.
This man's SEX is male. His GENDER may be whatever he says, as that's a socially constructed idea.

I understand that. The man remains male, regardless of how he dresses.

It doesn't matter whether people call him being male sex or gender - to me is and always will be a MAN.

His GENDER may be whatever he says

What's the point of that then? If people can say anything..?!

If he is a biological man, he is male. Isn't that what matters most?

Well of course, because being female is biology, gender is just an outdated man-made social construct/stereotypes that likes to put men and women into nice little acceptable boxes and defined roles to play.

It matters because if you remove gender then you can no longer be called a woman. You will be a "female person" or "female adult". Children will be female/male child. So if you want to be seen as and called a woman, then gender matters. Female is just your biological sex.

Nonsense.

Woman means adult female human, the same way doe means adult female deer.

What?! Woman refers to an adult human female, nothing to do with gender. What do you think a mare is for example? A horse that plays a certain gender role?! No, it’s simply an adult female horse.