To think that sex and gender are the same thing?

[StNinian]

I don't buy into the distinction many people make between the two terms nowadays. "Gender" was never a word used to describe how one feels/identifies behaves until recently. It has long been synonymous with "sex". Just curious to see if anyone else agrees with me.

Unless you've got obvious breasts (my friends doesnt) then what characteristics make people realise you are female from the front? And why do they assume you are a man from behind? Instead of not knowing.

No, you’re confusing stereotypes ie - girls like pink with generalised statements about biology ie - men are taller than women.

These are two different things.

You’re great entertainment, I have to give you that! Did you look at the pictures yet?

Unless you've got obvious breasts (my friends doesnt) then what characteristics make people realise you are female from the front? And why do they assume you are a man from behind? Instead of not knowing.

Our brains are not stupid. They are designed to recognise characteristics and make quick judgements. There are lots of subtle differences between how biological males and biological females look even if they were both to dress the exact same. 99.99% of the time our brains will assess and guess correctly.

The point of life from an evolutionary point of view, is to procreate, but you think there’s nothing built in to any species to help us identify males from females?! Amazing, you must think nature is really stupid huh?

Makes u wonder how on earth drs manage it when presented with unconscious patients found in all sorts of conditions/states of dress doesn't it.

If a woman is in a coma or dead and cant say what she is is she still a woman ?🤔

I deliberately looked for historic definitions to show that the semantic distinction is recent.

Sex pattern recognition.

And the assumption that I am a man from behind is because I have the shoulder width and musculature that is, according to gendered stereotyping, in line with being a member of the male sex.

Now do deer.

They're not.

Sex - female/male - biology

Gender - femininity/masculinity - sociology

Hence when it's not a sex change (impossible).

Can you explain what gender is without resorting to stereotypes then?

They were used interchangeably amongst the generally public, but in the social sciences there was / is a difference.

Traditionally sex and gender meant the same thing, gender gained ground as the word sex was considered naughty. "New gender" is the frou frou in peoples heads that they inflict on the world. Every "new gender" characteristic could be labeled as personality trait but that would be less special and harder to inflict on others.

There was little to no drama regarding the use of the words sex/gender interchangeably until the rise of The Genderborg with its TRA foot soldiers and handmaids abetted by #BeKind and gay people who didn't see it coming despite the warnings from the likes of Germaine Greer.

Now, just about every official document asks you about your gender, not sex. It is now not allowed to not have a 'gender identity'; and that 'identity' doesn't have to align with your sex. Apparently.

The conflation is so complete that the next step has been reached. Men can be women and you can be sacked for saying no.

I, too, am very careful to correct 'gender' to 'sex'; however, I could actually get into trouble for doing so, as that's the crime of 'misgendering' and is 'hateful'. Apparently.

When in doubt refer to Lord Robert Winston, who emphatically tells us that sex is distinct from gender. That your biological sex is in every cell of your body, so you cannot change your sex, no matter what hormones you take or surgeries you undergo.

Now, just about every official document asks you about your gender

So it asks whether you are MALE or FEMALE?

Every person is either male or female. You cannot change that fact.

Gender is how you present yourself to the world so how feminine or masculine you present as

That's way too subjective!

Why can't gender simply be biologically determined?

They ask 'gender'. The pull down menu may say 'male/female'. Or it may say 'male/female/assigned male/female at birth'. You may get 'How do you identify?'; pull down is 'male/female/ identify as male/female/prefer not to say'.

The following Q is always about pronouns.

Defining gender is the whole issue. People can't agree on it and that's why there is so much conflict. Who gets to decide? Who has the authority to define it?

Exactly.

So let's use a biological fact - xx or xy chromosomes!

Most other countries define gender to determine the biological state of being male or female

They ask 'gender'. The pull down menu may say 'male/female'. Or it may say 'male/female/assigned male/female at birth'. You may get 'How do you identify?'; pull down is 'male/female/ identify as male/female/prefer not to say'.

Well that's the problem - there are way too many options. It should simply be Male or Female!

This person doesn't have any right answers. Only daily mail regurgitated drivel.

@Blaueblumen I'm finding your posts very frustrating.

I think we all get it - in German the word gender refers to what we call sex in English (male/female) and the word sex refers only to intercourse. But we are discussing the English meanings of these words and in English they are not the same.

OTOH it does make me think about the way gender identity ideology first gained a foothold in anglophone countries and whether that would have been possible in countries with more gendered languages.

I am curious how the whole gender identity thing is explained in Germany and other countries where gender means the same as sex because in the UK we are frequently told by the TRA that of course you can't change sex but gender is different.

So in Germany, do trans people claim to have literally changed sex (gender in your language) or ...? How do they explain it?

So in Germany, do trans people claim to have literally changed sex (gender in your language) or ...? How do they explain it?

The law is changing towards self identification of gender/sex.

I do worry about trans people being able to change their gender/sex so easily and the implications for women's spaces.

Yes but if gender means biological sex in Germany do trans people claim to be literally changing from male to female or vice versa?

I just don't understand how these ideas have gained traction in a country with a language that has no equivalent to a magical gender essence that is not the same as sex.

Do people in Germany who buy into this believe that tw are actually female?

There is a spectrum with masculine on one side and feminine on the other. The females you describe would be closer to the middle of the spectrum but still on feminine side. Girly girls would be on far side of the spectrum.. Effeminate males are also closer to the middle whereas macho men on the outside of the spectrum.

The clearest proof that gender is a construct is that these two poles vary wildly over time and place, even switching over. Makeup, big hairdos, ribbons & embroidery, high heels, a love of dancing - have all been masculine signifiers in our own past and elsewhere. They still are, variously, in other cultures. Stoicism, resilience to pain, and endurance are female qualities but we now file them on the masculine side; we haven't always, and there are certainly many cultures where these are considered essential feminine attributes.

The reproductive categories of male and female never change. Like all mammals and most other living things, we recognise them for what they are - otherwise we'd all die out! The cultural, superficial & behavioural expectations of each sex are changeable because they're socially constructed: made up.

Conflating the two concepts is easily done, especially by people who've never had to think about it before. At the same time, the difference between 'sex' and 'gender' is easily grasped as soon as you do start to think about it.