Page 5 | To not want to buy friend's book?

Pluvia · 2023-04-19T17:15:38+00:00

A friend of mine recently completed an MA in Creative Writing and has self-published a short book. I have a background in publishing and writing and have been consulted regularly over the course of her study. I've also read parts of the book at various stages of development. It's genre fiction and not something I would choose to read or buy. She's been telling all her SM contacts that when the books arrive we all have to buy one. I started out by assuming she was joking and responded that I'd wait for the reviews before deciding to buy or not. It turns out it wasn't humorous and that she really does expect everyone to buy a copy at £10 a pop. She's intending to gatecrash an event she hasn't been invited to this weekend in order to sell books and has let me know that she'll be there and I'll need a £10 note. I know people will say 'It's only £10, what's the problem?' but it's the principle of the thing that irritates me. Not just the fact that I've given her several hours of my time and she still expects me to pay for the book, but that anyone should think that force-selling to friends is a good position. I know lots of people do these writing courses: have others encountered this? What did you do?

Daisiesandprimroses · 20/04/2023 13:15

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 20/04/2023 12:52

She's probably excited and wants to get it out there.

But how is it getting it 'out there' if it's just a polite purchase that stays unread on somebody's bookcase for however many years?

well I assume she’s hoping fhey will read it

i can only say for a good friend who has supported me I personally wouldn’t be so transactional saying well I helped her along the way. If I had the tenner to spare I’d be first in line to buy it and support her, she’d not have had to ask.

FinallyHere · 20/04/2023 13:18

Nah, I'd not go along with that.

I'd say 'sure I'll buy a copy, if you give me the £10 you said I'd need.

I have been known to by things I didn't want to encourage people in their endeavours.

This one doesn't need no encouragement.

Daisiesandprimroses · 20/04/2023 13:22

Howdoyou · 20/04/2023 11:56

That’s a bit rough. I’m all for recycling and buying second hand but someone has to buy the book new in the first place to make this happen plus authors have to make a living! They often put a lot of time and effort into writing so £10 is frankly a bargain for a lot of books and the pleasure they offer a reader.

I would personally just have bought a copy and either skim-read or not read at all if it’s a good friend anyway. My friend self published a few years ago and honestly the book really wasn’t great at all but I still bought and read it to support her.

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Agree, but some folks seem to view relationships as transactional , and actually feel getting something for helping them out is key. The poster even ignores the fact this woman has been there for the op.

if the op doesn’t have a tenner to spare it’s fair enough. But past that id fully support my friends. Christ I even bought a book a friend of my kids mum self published to show support. It’s the price of a mediocre bottle of wine at best.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 20/04/2023 13:22

well I assume she’s hoping fhey will read it

It's not a great sign, though, if you're having to actively persuade people to buy one. It's not like a song or short YouTube clip that you send to a friend; reading a book takes quite a bit of time and mental engagement.

i can only say for a good friend who has supported me I personally wouldn’t be so transactional saying well I helped her along the way. If I had the tenner to spare I’d be first in line to buy it and support her, she’d not have had to ask.

I'm still not certain that 'support' is quite the best term for it, although that's what people are using on here. Maybe 'validate' would be better? Is it actually 'supportive' to make somebody think that people are interested in their book when they aren't? I understand it when you tell a little child how beautiful and brilliantly-done their scribble is, but an adult?

That's not to say that their writing is of no interest to anybody in any way, but it still seems more like flattery to me than genuine support.

Daisiesandprimroses · 20/04/2023 13:24

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 20/04/2023 13:22

well I assume she’s hoping fhey will read it

It's not a great sign, though, if you're having to actively persuade people to buy one. It's not like a song or short YouTube clip that you send to a friend; reading a book takes quite a bit of time and mental engagement.

i can only say for a good friend who has supported me I personally wouldn’t be so transactional saying well I helped her along the way. If I had the tenner to spare I’d be first in line to buy it and support her, she’d not have had to ask.

I'm still not certain that 'support' is quite the best term for it, although that's what people are using on here. Maybe 'validate' would be better? Is it actually 'supportive' to make somebody think that people are interested in their book when they aren't? I understand it when you tell a little child how beautiful and brilliantly-done their scribble is, but an adult?

That's not to say that their writing is of no interest to anybody in any way, but it still seems more like flattery to me than genuine support.

I think trying to twist this into some moral crusade of being cruel to be kind is a bit Ott. It’s a good friend. She’s helped the op. She wants to see hee book sales go up; sure it’s fake but someone has to start it on Amazon. For a tenner why not give her a leg up

Mogginsthemog · 20/04/2023 13:24

Don't buy it. You've already done a lot to support her.
A colleague has had a couple of novels published (proper published, not self). I read one on kindle out of curiosity and it really wasn't very good.

It is hard to write well enough to have anything of a writing career. I suspect ppl either can or can't do it and it's not really something you can learn on writing courses.

Original poster

Pluvia · 20/04/2023 13:27

MrsCharlesFrere · 20/04/2023 11:46

You wouldn't be supporting her by giving her money.

You are supporting her by saying well done on your book, I'd love to have a copy.

This isn't about money for you or her.

But that would be a lie. I'd be horrified to think that people I was friendly with are lying to 'support' me. It's not supportive to lie to someone who's already quite delusional, surely?

Presumably the next hurdle to be negotiated will be 'Tell me what you thought about my book.'

I don't know what's happened to her. This has not been typical of our relationship in the last 25 years.

OP posts:

Original poster

Pluvia · 20/04/2023 13:31

sure it’s fake but someone has to start it on Amazon.

I find that really reprehensible. I don't lie to friends or on Amazon. But then I've stopped relying on Amazon reviews because most of them are fake and rarely buy anything from Amazon any more.

OP posts:

Inthesamesinkingboat · 20/04/2023 13:32

I think it was Nancy Mitford who on receiving a copy of a friends book and being asked her thoughts she replied “Good is not the word!!”

ChocolateCroissantCafe · 20/04/2023 13:44

There's such an emphasis on getting out there and building your own brand these days. Lots of expectations that you have to be a bit pushy and self-promote to get to the stage where it happens organically. If this isn't her usual style, I wonder if she's trying to live up to that.

ChickenDhansak82 · 20/04/2023 13:48

If she keeps pushing about it, I'd just politely say that given you gave up a lot of your time to advise her, then perhaps she would like to give you a copy for free...

(you can then perhaps read it and leave an honest review on Amazon!)

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 20/04/2023 13:51

I think trying to twist this into some moral crusade of being cruel to be kind is a bit Ott. It’s a good friend. She’s helped the op. She wants to see hee book sales go up; sure it’s fake but someone has to start it on Amazon. For a tenner why not give her a leg up

No, that's not what I'm reaching towards. I'm just going from the basis that OP doesn't want to buy the book (and she has helped the friend a lot as well with the book, so not even being offered a free copy is quite something).

I also think it's quite domineering - even emotional blackmail - to guilt people into buying a copy of something you've written/made, and stand to benefit financially from, knowing how very awkward it will be for them to say they don't like it and don't want it.

It's kind of reminiscent of those vanity poetry anthology books where they used to have a 'competition', with the 'best' ones being included - and then, wouldn't you know it, every single entry was one of the 'best'; meaning that every entrant and all their friends and family would then buy a copy.

I suppose charity sponsorship often works along the same lines: there's a personal attachment to the cause, which the organisers know will make potential donors feel they have to give money, to avoid causing awkwardness or even offence.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 20/04/2023 13:54

I think it was Nancy Mitford who on receiving a copy of a friends book and being asked her thoughts she replied “Good is not the word!!”

Was it also NM who said something along the lines of "For the kind of people who like this sort of thing, this is exactly the sort of thing that they will like!" ?!

That reminds me of the other old quote declaring that an (unknown, mediocre) author will be remembered after Shakespeare, Dickens and Austen have been forgotten.... but not before!!

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 20/04/2023 13:55

There's such an emphasis on getting out there and building your own brand these days. Lots of expectations that you have to be a bit pushy and self-promote to get to the stage where it happens organically. If this isn't her usual style, I wonder if she's trying to live up to that.

Yep, the old 'fake it 'til you make it' - much beloved of the MLM hunbots. Except it doesn't really fool anybody.

thing47 · 20/04/2023 14:12

DH has written a couple of (non-fiction) books published by a reputable mainstream publisher. He gives copies to friends who he knows are interested in the subject matter, and also to everyone who has helped with advice, copy-editing, proof-reading etc. He doesn't even mention them to anyone else.

One book has been quite successful and is still paying royalties 10 years after it was published but his brother for example (who has no interest in the subject matter of either book) probably doesn't even know about it despite them being quite close.

RideACockHorseToSunburyCross · 20/04/2023 14:32

@Beautiful3 Amazon report your read through and page reads to the author.

There are a lot of misconceptions about self publishing, many don't ever send to an agent or have any desire to even attempt trad publishing. It can be extremely lucrative.

MrsCharlesFrere · 20/04/2023 15:15

The most recent book I found myself buying was indeed followed up with a request to review.

I found it easy to say to my friend "TBH I haven't actually read it yet as I'm not sure it's my kind of thing. I bought it to as I think it's a great achievement to publish a book. I'll get round to it eventually and let you know what I thought."

Obvs as you are in publishing this sentiment is not so relevant but you get my gist.

If I can do something trivial that makes someone else happy then why wouldn't I do it?

venusandmars · 20/04/2023 15:15

I wrote a book.

It's sort of 'technical' rather than fiction, so advice about a very specific topic.

I GAVE it to friends and colleagues who work in the same field. Some of them chose to write great reviews.

I also had a commercial model: increase my prices by £25; give them a 'free' book costing [on the price list] £15; cost to me per book - c£3

I'm now writing something fiction.
Would still never expect friends to pay for it.

helloimnew123 · 20/04/2023 16:36

Is £10 going to make of break your life?

She shouldn't be putting pressure on you, but she's probably excited/ nervous and would like some support.

I think a good friend would just buy one

ChocolateBeforeBed · 20/04/2023 16:47

Pluvia · 20/04/2023 13:27

But that would be a lie. I'd be horrified to think that people I was friendly with are lying to 'support' me. It's not supportive to lie to someone who's already quite delusional, surely?

Presumably the next hurdle to be negotiated will be 'Tell me what you thought about my book.'

I don't know what's happened to her. This has not been typical of our relationship in the last 25 years.

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Crikey! You've been friends 25years. So presumably this is a good friend? But you won't spend a tenner on her to buy her book? Surely good friends support each other. Good friends also feel comfortable enough to pull each other up. With my good friends I'd buy the book in an instant, then tease them about selling them and being cheeky, and there would be good humour and banter, but my friend would get them message :) while also feeling supported and knowing her friend was proud of her

Daisiesandprimroses · 20/04/2023 17:17

Pluvia · 20/04/2023 13:27

But that would be a lie. I'd be horrified to think that people I was friendly with are lying to 'support' me. It's not supportive to lie to someone who's already quite delusional, surely?

Presumably the next hurdle to be negotiated will be 'Tell me what you thought about my book.'

I don't know what's happened to her. This has not been typical of our relationship in the last 25 years.

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Wow, 25 years, she’s written a book, huge accomplishment snd uou won’t support her with buying a copy. Bloody hell. And you ask what happened to her. 😱

Daisiesandprimroses · 20/04/2023 17:21

Op are you envious of her? Her financial situation? Nearly every post you go on about money, how she’s got a pension, how a tenner is nothing to her, how you run the numbers and she will make a fiver a book, how she’s for more than you. Is that It? Are you jealous?

thing47 · 20/04/2023 18:29

But you're overlooking the fact the OP has already given her professional help to her friend, she's been actively involved in the process.

No author I know – or more accurately, DH knows – would fail to give @Pluvia a copy as a thank-you under those circumstances.

myusernamewastakenbyme · 20/04/2023 18:47

I wouldnt buy it either...i hate being told what to spend my own hard earned money on so for that reason would not buy it.

WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll · 20/04/2023 18:54

Would people really want friends to buy their book out of a feeling of duty and politeness, and likely never read it - when they don't even need the money? To be honest, I'd be a bit embarrassed if they actively did choose to buy it, unbidden by me.

This makes me think of TV game shows, where some contestant will often say "My Mum/Uncle/Sister/Friend will kill me if I get this question wrong" when it's about a subject that they have a great interest in, but not one that the contestant in the chair shares at all.

Surely we don't have to be clones in character and interest of our loved ones, in order to have a close relationship with them?