To think that if it was France & French no one would care about a name change but because it’s Welsh…

[Letshaveablackcelebration2022]

Welsh is trending on Twitter because a lot of people don’t like the fact that the Brecon Beacons will revert to its Welsh name https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/17/brecon-beacons-relaunches-with-welsh-name-bannau-brycheiniog-as-picture-of-hope-for-future

People also kicked off when Snowdon also reverted to its Welsh name Yr Wyddfa

Aibu to really not understand the issue. I am Welsh and a Welsh speaker. It makes sense to me to call place names by their Welsh names and not by their anglicised versions if you want to protect a language and culture. Which we do.

Noone would bat an eyelid if in France their decided to only use French names. We drive in France and get by without English alternatives. So what exactly is the problem with Wales doing the same?

I don't need educating on the issue. The problem I have is not with the Welsh language being used in Wales, it's your argument. It's not equivalent to French in France in any way. I bet you are one of those Welsh people who think that you can only be Welsh if you speak Welsh.

Also, twitter, it's not what real people think. It's just where people who would like to be considered important, put out their views. I don't think English people care in the slightest about Wales and what language is spoken. It does not factor into anything at all. Wales is no different to anywhere else in the UK, unless somebody I love lives there, it's no more special than Norwich if I'm in Newcastle. Don't get me wrong, I really like Wales, there's a lot to like. But I think you are in cloud cuckoo land if you think that people in England really care what you call your mountains.

@EsmeSusanOgg , I'm not disagreeing with anyone academic, because I don't know what they said. I'm not saying that North Walian is more correct, because it covers a lot of dialects, and someone from, say, Wrecsam might sound different to someone from Pwllheli.

I suspect that you were given a colloquial or dialectical pronunciation of a word and not the formal pronunciation.

Cf. If you had someone from London teaching you English, they might teach you the southern way of saying a word, but that doesn't mean that's how it's said.
If I said that 'Ask' is said as 'Arsk' , that might make no sense to someone from an area where the accent has a rhotic R.

@darjeelingrose you are missing the point though. If Welsh hadn’t been historically oppressed, it would fully be the language of wales. So it is potentially similar to French. And it is important.

And wales isn’t the same as the rest of the U.K.- it’s a country with its own identity. Like Scotland and ireland.

@darjeelingrose , I bet you are one of those Welsh people who think that you can only be Welsh if you speak Welsh.

You can be welsh by birth, welsh by parentage, or welsh because you speak it.
They aren't the same.

If a Welsh-speaker said to me 'Is he Welsh?', they'd probably mean 'Does he speak Welsh?'

If someone told you they were french, would you think that
a. they were born on french soil
b. they had french parents
c. they had french nationality
d. they spoke French?

I think its a good idea because, embarrassingly, thought they were in England as it sounded a really English name.

Generally place and river names are very long standing and reflect quite early languages of places.

See, this is what I mean, I feel you have a valid point but you are just making such a poor argument. Wales is the same as the rest of the UK precisely because the UK contains Scotland, for example. Did you mean Wales isn't the same as England?

I don't see what your point it is. I think that the OP is somebody who only thinks you can be Welsh if you speak Welsh. What is your point?

I didn't know Snowden name had changed.

@lljkk , who's Snowden?

@darjeelingrose actually I don’t think that you can’t be Welsh if you don’t speak Welsh. My partner is Welsh but didn’t grow up a Welsh speaker even tho his mum is first Lang Welsh because his parents thought you’d get further by speaking English. Hence how the language numbers fell but have risen again.

And I mean the U.K. is ‘meant’ to be a union of nations but it doesn’t feel like that. It doesn’t feel optional. And much like in Scotland where the Indy movement grew- so it has been growing in wales. Wales is it’s own country but at times it feels like we aren’t allowed to be. It feels like, at this moment for example when a bit of Welsh language is reclaimed, scorn is poured on the country.

I'm not missing the point. You're the one who chose a bad analogy. It isn't similar to French. It's all the more poorly chosen because French replaced many local Fench lanugages, such as Breton, Occitan, Corsican. BTW if things had gone differently, we'd all be speaking Saxon. And please don't say that William I was just a nice chap who encouraged French.

Ok, different question, why do you feel that anybody cares, or are you just basing your opinion on twitter? Have you ever lived anywhere other than England? And before you ask, yes I have lived in Wales.

@darjeelingrose it was on bloody GMB this morning with Susanna reid et all pouring scorn on it. It’s been in the media all day. It’s the negativity - it’s in the papers too.

I agree. Most non-Welsh people will probably still call things by their English names though.

23% of children in Wales are in Welsh medium education - as PP said, entirely in Welsh, that except English lessons. The number will rise because new Welsh medium schools are opening every year.

I spat my wine out at this!

That's not even close to 'most' though, which is the point I was asking about.

I'n a bit surprised at the fuss - Bannau Brycheiniog is a name I have been familiar with since the '70s, because it's always been on the signs. I'd be a bit upset if the logo of an actual burning beacon went, because I'm so familiar with it - it's part of my childhood. But I'd survive. I can understand wanting to highlight climate change, but it does seem to miss the historical point. Beacons existed, but we don't use them now to communicate news (except some ceremonial things) because we have other, more efficient methods.

Still, if it's upsetting Farage, then it's probably a good idea.

But I think you are in cloud cuckoo land if you think that people in England really care what you call your mountains

Well, plenty of MPs in England seem to be getting in a right old bonkers froth about it@darjeelingrose. For example:

And Tim Loughton, Conservative MP for East Worthing and Shoreham, said: 'So Brecon Beacons National Park named after beacons using renewable fuel to signal occasional emergencies to be named after legendary King Brychan reputed to have had up to 63 children, for climate change virtue signalling purposes. Which was more harmful to the planet?'

Do you mean it's not like England? It is like the UK because the UK encompasses the countries you mention with their own identities.

The reality is I suspect most people aren't bothered at all, they'll continue to refer to it how they please. The ones vocal about it either just wait for a reason to pounce or are doing so on principle.

My DH is Welsh and when we were dating I learnt a bit of welsh- I'm absolutely not fluent but I'm conversational; turns out none of his family speak it anyway. I'm glad I learnt it but still...

I'm Welsh and speak some of the language. I also run holiday lets in Snowdonia

We still use Snowdon and Snowdonia in our marketing and website literature simply because most of our guests are English and Eryri means nothing to the vast majority let alone Yr Wyddfa. Even the Welsh Govt's site for the national park is still snowdonia.gov.wales

It will be many years before the Welsh terms are as familiar as the English ones and probably even long for Bannau Brycheiniog as they are not even in a generally Welsh speaking area. Whilst I have no real issue with the Beacons reverting to the Welsh name, the reason they give as to why is just plain ridiculous.

It's not been changed. The English name still exists and is used when speaking English. All that has changed is that the Welsh name is the one used on official documents. 99.9% of people will never read the official documents.

The French do only use French names for places, OP. French people don't talk about Brittany, they talk about Bretagne.

I live in France and speak French and know that the region is called Bretagne. I say Bretagne when I am speaking French but Brittany when I am speaking English, because it would be weird and pretentious to do otherwise. I also don't refer to Germany as Deutschland or Spain as España for the same reasons.

There's no difference here. Welsh speakers were presumably already using the Welsh name for the Brecon Beacons when speaking Welsh, and English speakers will no doubt continue to say Brecon Beacons.

The question of whether this rebranding exercise is really a good use of public funds right now is worth asking.

No, I was agreeing- it’s not most - I was just giving the figures.
23% are in WM ed and the rest get “some Welsh” - some people do actually come out of English medium ed able to speak a decent bit of Welsh, but it’s rare.