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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Well fuck me pink and call me Rosie. AIBU?

454 replies

TooBigForMyBoots · 15/04/2023 22:44

Do you know that Belfast and NI are in the British Isles? Are you aware that some British people claim they do not know that NI is in the same timezone as the rest of the UK?

YABU = You can't expect British people to know the history and geography of their country.
YANBU = Of course British people know this stuff. Anyone who says otherwise is having you on.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
DownNative · 16/04/2023 15:09

Jourdain11 · 16/04/2023 13:07

Yes, exactly! Because Great Britain is an island, which comprises England, Scotland and Wales.

Northern Ireland isn't on the island, so it's not part of Great Britain, just the same as it's not part of mainland Europe or Greenland.

Show quote history

It's a point of language here. In English, the word "and" does not axiomatically mean something is separate from another and vice versa.

It depends on context.

So, in United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland the keyword is "United" which informs the context from which "and" derives its meaning. That's this - "used to connect words of the same part of speech, clauses, or sentences, that are to be taken jointly."

In simple terms, the full name of the UK means "Great Britain and Northern Ireland have been joined together to form ONE, territory and ONE people with ONE sovereign Government within ONE sovereign Parliament known as the United Kingdom".

This is the geopolitical meaning and, therefore, the two are NOT separate. Additionally, Great Britain is NOT a country so they cannot be described as "two separate countries" either as has been done in this thread.....

DownNative · 16/04/2023 15:11

JaneJeffer · 16/04/2023 14:51

But it cannot be said that ALL of the Republic of Ireland is more northerly than all of Northern Ireland. Fact is, twenty-five counties of the Republic of Ireland is further south than Northern Ireland.
Well duh!

Precisely my point which shows the PP did not and cannot show my statement to be incorrect as they erroneously stated....🤷‍♂️

Original poster
TooBigForMyBoots · 16/04/2023 15:15

It wasn't started to be goady. And it certainly isn't a TAAT, or it would have been removed. I was 🤯 that any UK citizens didn't know the UK had a single time zone.

Now, at least the Mnetters on this thread know that Belfast is in the same time zone as the rest of the country.😊

OP posts:
Jourdain11 · 16/04/2023 15:25

DownNative · 16/04/2023 15:09

It's a point of language here. In English, the word "and" does not axiomatically mean something is separate from another and vice versa.

It depends on context.

So, in United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland the keyword is "United" which informs the context from which "and" derives its meaning. That's this - "used to connect words of the same part of speech, clauses, or sentences, that are to be taken jointly."

In simple terms, the full name of the UK means "Great Britain and Northern Ireland have been joined together to form ONE, territory and ONE people with ONE sovereign Government within ONE sovereign Parliament known as the United Kingdom".

This is the geopolitical meaning and, therefore, the two are NOT separate. Additionally, Great Britain is NOT a country so they cannot be described as "two separate countries" either as has been done in this thread.....

Show quote history

I never said that Great Britain and NI are separate countries. I said that NI is not part of Great Britain, which it isn't.

It's part of the UK, yes, but not part of Great Britain. I do understand the meaning of the word "and", but in order to be joined together into a union, they did originally (all of the nation states) have to be discrete entities. Otherwise there'd have been no joining to be done.

Travellingwillow · 16/04/2023 15:49

As an Irish person who lives in the North of Ireland I've had to explain to English friends that no they don't need a passport to get here and they don't need to change their money to euros. 🙄

queenmeadhbh · 16/04/2023 15:52

I went to uni in England and the number of people who asked what the currency was in NI, what time it is in NI, and if it would cost them long distance to ring me during the holidays etc etc. Baffling.

they didn’t like it when I replied that NI only used the same currency and dialling code because we were colonised by the Brits…

cupofteaandabiccyplease · 16/04/2023 16:02

Up thread Re; posting to Jersey, postage is different because the Channel Islands aren't part of the U.K they are self governing crown dependancy so different to us. Stuff being posted to / from the Isle of Wight is the same as being on mainland. But having said that it can cost more to get a heavy item over.
I ordered an item from the mainland and it was £15 extra by courier because it had to be sent over, but some companies just charge the mainland rate for delivery.

Daftasabroom · 16/04/2023 16:13

DownNative · 16/04/2023 14:40

And yet you've failed to demonstrate that my statement that "all of Northern Ireland is more northerly than all of the Republic of Ireland" is incorrect.

I've put the keywords in bold.

The reality is that a small bit of County Donegal is slightly more northerly than all of Northern Ireland.

But it cannot be said that ALL of the Republic of Ireland is more northerly than all of Northern Ireland. Fact is, twenty-five counties of the Republic of Ireland is further south than Northern Ireland.

I hope that's clearer.

Show quote history

But if a bit of the ROI is more northerly than anywhere in NI then your statement is simply wrong.

All means all yeah?

Which bit of NI is more northerly than anywhere in ROI?

horridjobescapee · 16/04/2023 16:28

@Daftasabroom @DownNative is correct. I lived in a bit of Northern Ireland that is south of part of the Republic of Ireland. I looked north and saw The South.

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 16/04/2023 16:29

TooBigForMyBoots · 16/04/2023 12:04

This is not a TAAT. The consensus on this thread is that the majority of UK people know that the UK has one timezone. I agree with them.

I also agree that anyone who doesn't know it is probably from abroad., like Jourdain.

It’s literally a TAAT. You claimed ‘some people’ think UK has 2 time zones but never specified who or what they said.

Again - just own it!

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 16/04/2023 16:29

Everydayshouldbe · 16/04/2023 12:06

It is literally a thread started because someone on another thread asked whether NI was in same timezone as the rest of the U.K.
How you can claim otherwise I do not know.

Exactly.

I actually almost admire the OP’s commitment to the lies 🤣

postapesto · 16/04/2023 16:31

Can you not use the term "British Isles"? neither government uses the term and its outdated, colonial and quite offensive.

Ireland is NOT in the British Isles.

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 16/04/2023 16:31

TooBigForMyBoots · 16/04/2023 15:15

It wasn't started to be goady. And it certainly isn't a TAAT, or it would have been removed. I was 🤯 that any UK citizens didn't know the UK had a single time zone.

Now, at least the Mnetters on this thread know that Belfast is in the same time zone as the rest of the country.😊

But WHICH UK citizens made you go 🤯?

So odd that you won’t answer

Jourdain11 · 16/04/2023 16:37

postapesto · 16/04/2023 16:31

Can you not use the term "British Isles"? neither government uses the term and its outdated, colonial and quite offensive.

Ireland is NOT in the British Isles.

Fair enough, but Northern Ireland still isn't part of Great Britain!!

Kanaloa · 16/04/2023 16:38

Thepeopleversuswork · 16/04/2023 12:26

I agree in general. Sneering at people who have had fewer educational opportunities is unpleasant.

But the OP and others are correct that general knowledge in the UK specifically about Ireland is woefully poor and that this is a problem.

My partner is from N Ireland and some of his close (English) friends seem not to be able to grasp that he is not from the Republic or to understand the nuance of having grown up In Belfast during the Troubles. They will say things like: “oh we should all go to Dublin one weekend and hang out with X’s family”. When my partner is of Protestant heritage, grew up in Belfast an and didn’t go south of the border until he was in his 20s.

It’s not that it’s offensive: like many N Irish people he is bored of talking about the Troubles and hates sectarianism and would be repulsed by the idea that he would not visit Dublin because of his religious background. But the lack of understanding of the context and historical burden sometimes brings me up short in shock.

Thats political. It’s partly a result of the fact that British people have been deliberately under educated about the way Britain treated Ireland for centuries and the role this has played in the creation of NI. It’s not necessarily these people’s faults but it is concerning that no one has thought to address this in their education.

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That’s not really what op’s thread is about though. She didn’t post ‘how many people here learned about x in school’ or ‘why do you think general knowledge about x is quite patchy, is it being taught?’ She posted to sneer.

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 16/04/2023 16:40

Kanaloa · 16/04/2023 16:38

That’s not really what op’s thread is about though. She didn’t post ‘how many people here learned about x in school’ or ‘why do you think general knowledge about x is quite patchy, is it being taught?’ She posted to sneer.

Show quote history

This.

She didn’t post about the lack of people’s knowledge of UK geography (a fair discussion to bring up). She misunderstood a poster on another thread and came here to posture about it on a sneery and cringey way

Jourdain11 · 16/04/2023 16:41

And Ireland is part of the archipelago which was, historically, referred to as the British Isles. It's not possible to rewrite history. Like Strasbourg was once part of Germany, but isn't now. Or, if New Zealand ever does change its name, it'll still be the country historically known as New Zealand from x date to y date.

postapesto · 16/04/2023 17:27

Jourdain11 · 16/04/2023 16:41

And Ireland is part of the archipelago which was, historically, referred to as the British Isles. It's not possible to rewrite history. Like Strasbourg was once part of Germany, but isn't now. Or, if New Zealand ever does change its name, it'll still be the country historically known as New Zealand from x date to y date.

It doesn't matter what it was historically referred to by the colonising country. Ireland never agreed that it was the British Isles.

Usage changes, and if you use outdated, offensive, terms, people are going to have a problem with it. And with you.

postapesto · 16/04/2023 17:28

Jourdain11 · 16/04/2023 16:37

Fair enough, but Northern Ireland still isn't part of Great Britain!!

Show quote history

I never said, or ever would say, that is was. Anyone with half a brain knows that.

Daftasabroom · 16/04/2023 17:30

postapesto · 16/04/2023 16:31

Can you not use the term "British Isles"? neither government uses the term and its outdated, colonial and quite offensive.

Ireland is NOT in the British Isles.

Britton actually refers to the Celtic languages spoken by the inhabitants of the The Isle's prior to Roman occupation. The Romans of course refered to the Isles as the Tin Islands.

postapesto · 16/04/2023 17:33

Daftasabroom · 16/04/2023 17:30

Britton actually refers to the Celtic languages spoken by the inhabitants of the The Isle's prior to Roman occupation. The Romans of course refered to the Isles as the Tin Islands.

Show quote history

That has absolute no effect on what the "British Isles" means.

Jourdain11 · 16/04/2023 17:39

postapesto · 16/04/2023 17:27

It doesn't matter what it was historically referred to by the colonising country. Ireland never agreed that it was the British Isles.

Usage changes, and if you use outdated, offensive, terms, people are going to have a problem with it. And with you.

Show quote history

I never used it, but you clearly have a problem with me anyway. Maybe you're just looking to take offence?

Pseudonamed · 16/04/2023 17:39

Travellingwillow · 16/04/2023 15:49

As an Irish person who lives in the North of Ireland I've had to explain to English friends that no they don't need a passport to get here and they don't need to change their money to euros. 🙄

I had to explain that to someone in county louth only recently can you believe. The question was 'do I need a passport to get the train from Drogheda to Belfast and what currency will I bring'. This grown adult was born here and raised here. I could not believe my ears.

Pseudonamed · 16/04/2023 17:40

Here meaning Ireland fyi.

piratypotato · 16/04/2023 17:56

Pseudonamed · 16/04/2023 17:39

I had to explain that to someone in county louth only recently can you believe. The question was 'do I need a passport to get the train from Drogheda to Belfast and what currency will I bring'. This grown adult was born here and raised here. I could not believe my ears.

Show quote history

Was this on a local FB group? I think I may have seen it!!
People are thick everywhere