To think that my DH and I are growing apart due to political differences?

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DH and I met 15 years ago. We were both fairly liberal and centre in terms of politics and subsequent discussions were amicable. Fast forward all those years and he’s turned more to the right, whereas I’ve gone more to the left.

We differ now about almost everything: Brexit, refugees, unions and strikes. I feel that he’s become a real Tory bore to be honest. Has this happened to anyone else? Obviously we do try and be respectful of each other and have good debates about politics but fundamentally I feel that we aren’t as close as we once were. He’s a lot older than me too and he has become cynical, grumpy and argumentative whereas I’ve got a lot more energy and vitality to me. Sometimes I really crave a decent left wing professor to spend my evenings with. (Partly joking about that, but you get the gist)

Radio 4 is on for an hour in the mornings.

I have Radio 4 on all the time and I'm a card carrying member of the Labour Party.

But I don't think those policies are bad even for my children. Handing down money just cements inequality. Also, the average age to inherit in the UK is 61. I think too much money is tied up in capital and labour is worth to little, I don't see how that benefits us. I will never understand why its better somebody is taxed heavily on money they work hard for, money they have to spread thinly just to try to make ends meet, and somebody else can receive hundreds of thousands of pounds, that they did absolutely nothing to earn, gets the money completely tax free. And before anyone accusses me of envy, I will be subject to inheritance tax, even with the very high thresholds we have (so high only something like 4% of estates pay anything at all) in both directions.

DH and I disagree on many things (Brexit being one of them, but I also disagree with my parents on this sooooo) but we also agree on many things. We also agree / disagree on things that I wouldn’t say out loud to anyone else outside of our household. The key is to be able to talk about it respectfully in an ‘agree to disagree’ manner.

There is nothing more unattractive than someone who thinks their opinion is right, and that anyone who thinks otherwise is uneducated.

i’d be more concerned about him being grumpy and argumentative really.

Neither. I’d despair of her as I do of all single issue voters. The Tories (who introduced the GRA in 2017) have cynically backtracked for electoral advantage. Their egregious austerity policy has done more to damage women and children than self ID ever could. I’d urge her to look at the bigger picture.

I agree, and I'm as GC as they come. I don't know how women just ignore the fact that all the advances and harms Trans people have had, have happened under the Tories. Even self ID was a Tory idea.

Well, I think Labour have lost the plot as far as the gender issue is concerned. As have the other left leaning parties. It is incredibly disappointing. However, I have no faith in the Tories' commitment to protecting the rights of women either, despite apparently being able to recognise what one is . Given their actual record in government, I am amazed that anyone would actually argue that women's rights are a reason to vote Tory.

If a friend somehow reached the conclusion that they did need to vote Tory in order to protect women's rights, I would not write them off as a bad person, but I would certainly be (privately) questioning their judgement. I would be shocked by the fact that they had apparently been duped into believing that the Tories care about the rights of women, and disappointed that they hadn't researched a little more into what has actually been happening to women under the Tories. And I would presume that they were probably coming from a position of relative privilege if they were able to make their electoral decisions on the basis of that one single issue alone.

Agreed. I would think she was being very silly and remind her of all the harm the Tories have done in their 13 years in power. Single issue voting is daft, the direction of travel is of far more importance than one solitary policy.

Like @Kendodd, I've done pretty well for myself as well, and at a purely personal level, of course I'm better off under the Tories.

And yes, of course I want to do what I can to help dd get on the property ladder etc, but not at the expense of contributing to the wider society through paying a fair amount of tax.

The way I see it, my dd has had tons of advantages already by growing up with highly educated parents in a financially comfortable environment. I don't need to pass on everything I own to her...other people need it more.

My parents have done pretty well for themselves as well, despite humble beginnings. They will want to make some provision for their grandchildren, I'm sure, but they are more than happy to pay a decent chunk in tax when they go, and they will almost certainly donate further sums to charity.

Helping the next generation is undoubtedly important to a lot of people, but some see that in terms of helping their own kids whereas others look at the picture more broadly because they recognise that their kids may have had a significant head start already.

You're right, I did just repeat the premise because I mistaken assumed that everyone has some kind of moral standard that they wouldn't be willing to compromise on in a partner.

mrsBennet yes you’ve made this point on numerous occasions in this thread. I think we’ve all got the message.
From another angle, how would you feel about a left wing partner who believed that the Soviet Union was, on balance, a good thing. Ok, Stalin murdered and starved millions of people which, although not ideal, was unfortunately necessary.

What?

Surely it's pretty obvious that the same principle applies. My values wouldn't align with someone who believed that mass murder was a good thing.

If someone held values that I would not want passed on to my dc, then I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with them.

It's weird how few people realise that the far left has killed a lot more people than the far right.

I live in Wales and we've had a Labour government for quite some time - it's an absolute shot show over here. They definitely aren't doing a better job than the Tories.
Their latest bright idea apparently is to give asylum seekers £1,600 per month plus free legal aid. Even citizens can't access free legal aid most of the time! All paid for by us, of course. Meanwhile where I live, there's no hospital, roads are full of holes etc.
Neither of the main parties is morally better from I'm standing.

You're quite right that UK citizens are often unable to access legal aid. This is a major injustice which has arisen as a result of legislation introduced by the Tory/Lib Dem coalition government in Westminster (LASPO). Legal aid is not a devolved matter for Wales, so you really can't blame Welsh Labour for that.A quick Google tells me that the Labour policy that you are referencing is a pilot scheme that doesn't apply to all asylum seekers, but rather to young asylum seekers who arrived in the UK as unaccompanied children in order to provide them with a basic income when they first leave local authority care. Those young people are already eligible for legal aid (which, as I have said, is not a devolved matter in any case), and my understanding is that the Welsh government has merely been seeking to ensure that the new basic income scheme won't affect that right.I used to work with unaccompanied asylum seeking children, both while they were in care and after they left care. The vast majority were deeply traumatised after having been victims of war, abuse, exploitation and trafficking. What they had been through was unimaginable and the long term impact on their mental health was heartbreaking. They were mostly desperate to get a quick decision on their asylum applications but were typically left in limbo for years awaiting a Home Office decision - again, you can blame the UK government for this, and not the Welsh administration. They were not permitted to work while they were waiting.If you feel that providing a basic income for extremely vulnerable young care leavers who are not allowed to earn an income to support themselves, while seeking to safeguard their access to justice via the legal aid to which they are already entitled is the worst thing that the Labour government has done in Wales, then frankly, that doesn't sound too concerning to me.For me, your post just underlines the fact that some people have values that are fundamentally incompatible with mine. Which is kind of what I have been saying all along, really.

Weird. My paragraphs disappeared. Apologies.

DH and I got together when he was 60 and I was 46. Both pretty entrenched in our views.

He voted Tory and I voted Labour.

it never mattered - he wasn't a bigot (just a soft c Tory), and I wasn't a Marxist. We had a few lively discussions, but always with respect. Left wing isn't always right, any more than right wing is.

Brexit did cause ructions, so we banned the subject until after the vote. Fair enough. Voting is a personal choice.

But, we did come together politically in recent years.

It became more nuanced.

We both loathed Johnson and we both loathed Corbyn and his motley acolytes of anti Semites.

So, we both voted for an independent.

We both intend to vote for Labour if Starmer remains.

We live in "true blue" area - but our MP is honestly a decent bloke. He serves his constituents well.

The one doing the most damage to London boroughs is Labourite Sadiq Khan with his poverty inducing ULEZ charges.

But, although politics is important, it's not the be all and end all. I've got Tory friends, Labour friends and every other hue - I like all of them.

Newspaper wise, I like some of the articles in the DM, but not all of it. DH likes the Guardian but I find it a bit too much, at times, with the political shroud waving.

At the moment DH is extremely with Covid and complications, and the future is very unclear, as the hospital are doubtful he will survive..

I'd give anything to have him home arguing about politics with me again.

Some things are just much more important.

I'm sorry to hear that your DH is so unwell @Zebedee55. I hope he is able to make a full recovery.

From another angle, how would you feel about a left wing partner who believed that the Soviet Union was, on balance, a good thing. Ok, Stalin murdered and starved millions of people which, although not ideal, was unfortunately necessary.

It's weird how few people realise that the far left has killed a lot more people than the far right

This is an absolutely bonkers stretch - are you implying that, for example, the Labour Party attract supporters who would be also be supportive of...Stalin? Because you'll find a huge swathe of the Left reject people like Corbyn, Seamus Milne, Stop the War and their acolytes for their adherence to extreme left ideologies (and also their current minimisation of Putin's culpability). 2019 Labour's worst election defeat since 1936, specifically because of this. Communism, or at least the Soviet version of Communism, has absolutely minimal support in this country. Why? Because most people on the left do realise what the far left have historically been capable of. Labour supporters are generally soft left or centre left, and even much of the far left baulks at this. Very few people will find themselves in a situation where there partner gives Stalin a free pass.

Conversely, the current shit show of Tories are adopting very far right principles - which are a bawhair away from outright fascism - and with seemingly massive support amongst its voters.

What posters asking about Stalin etc seem not to get is that this is about values, not ideology.

AnElegantChaos

This is an absolutely bonkers stretch - are you implying that, for example, the Labour Party attract supporters who would be also be supportive of...Stalin?

As you and others have said you consider the Tories today to be far right and therefore it is wholly unacceptable to have a partner who supported them. I was just interested as to whether far left politics were equally objectionable.

Certainly some on the left have been tolerant of communism in a way they’d never dream of being tolerant of Tories. For example I was reading Claire Tomalin’s memoir in which she describes meeting her first husband Nick Tomalin who was then a communist as was his father Miles:

‘Miles had a penchant for forceful women and a stubborn belief in the virtues of the Communist Party that made him oblivious to their crimes.’

She makes no comment on this whereas had he supported a right wing party then I’m sure she would’ve had no further relations with him.
Likewise Eric Hobsbawm who although criticised for his refusal to condemn Soviet Russia, was never ‘cancelled’.

I don't know how to explain what I mean in a way that people understand. This is not about some kind of political ideology for me. I couldn't actually care less about that. It is about the real harm that I see being done in my community to real people, as a result of Tory policy. Maybe some people don't see it. Maybe some see it but don't care.

All I am saying is that I don't personally feel that I want to share my life with the people who are responsible for that harm.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves Oh I definitely see what you're saying, and agree. However I do find it hard to separate ideology from values as I don't think you can have one without the other (I mean you can have values without the ideology but I don't think you can follow an ideology without it being supported by your values), and then that inevitably feeds into what politics you follow.

Yeah, there's a difference between being a conservative and voting for this government. I don't think it's 'immoral' to be a conservative for example.

On the other side you can be a natural left winger but found it impossible to vote for Blair after the Iraq War, or a Labour moderate that found Corbyn unconscionable and wouldn't vote for him. You don't have to vote for the same party all the time.

The Tories have been utterly toxic, at least since Boris Johnson became leader. There's nothing redeeming about them and they've destroyed the country since the Brexit vote.

There may be some devolution in Wales and Labour may well be hopeless in local government there (I know they are in my English town) but a lot of the problems stem from Westminster and are consequence of austerity and/or 13 years of Tory misrule.

I think the point for me is that it's about real people. Not ideas or political models etc.

Of course, I get that ideology and values are linked, but I don't really care about the ideology per se. I care about the impact that the ideology has on real people.

MrsBennetsPoorNerves Oh for sure - I do have friends who are Tory voters but I absolutely couldn't be in a relationship with one because I have quite strong feelings re social justice and the impact of Tory policies. My DH and I don't occupy the same space on the 'left spectrum' but we both hold the same basic values