Aibu to think most European countries don't have an Education class system or a class system at all?

[Stellanotbud]

Aibu to think that most European countries especially former communist countries don't have a class system or educational class system like the UK.. Most kids all go to state school & muddle along? Snobbery isn't a prevelant in most European countries & educational standards are high & mostly state run.

I find your phrasing Really interesting @Mooshamoo . It’s like something out of Jane Austin. I am astonished you wrote “marriageable”. Like that was a thing still. As well as the “cold and cruel”. It’s almost Dickensian,

I can’t believe in 2023 anyone thinks of women in terms of being “marriageable” any more, and , even worse, based on their perceived position in society.

it’s like you live 200 years ago.

But, in some ways, it seems easy in Britain to move " out" of your social class? Most of my friends are middle class but with parents who were definitely working class- perhaps we all just stick together 😁. The " middle class" seems to be an expanding group. Or is this similar in other countries too?

I was at university with two German lads, a very posh one whose parents were lawyers and had grown up with his own horse on a country estate, and one from an immigrant background whose parents ran a small shop.

The posh one wouldn't speak to the other and once described him to me as, "not a real German." That may not be typical, but I found it shocking.

He purged the traditional urban, liberal, intelligentsia (amongst others). Hierarchies didn’t disappear however, those purged were simply replaced by high ranking party members functionaries. Who also had access to things the average worker did not. The Soviet class system can be roughly divided into the administrators, who developed and implanted policy, the proletariat, and the peasantry. You also did have the intelligentsia class that re-emerged.

That’s interesting whump.

You also did have the intelligentsia class that re-emerged.

Was that after the end of the Soviet Union?
When the war finally ends I wonder what will happen to the Oligarchs. Will they return to Russia do you think? I suppose it depends who’s in charge.

Hierarchies didn’t disappear however, those purged were simply replaced by high ranking party members functionaries. Who also had access to things the average worker did not.

True. And this hierarchy was very rigorous. One could literally be barred from education or jobs, if their parents fell into political disfavour. You could also replace "fee-paying" for education with insane bribery.

Well the class system really belongs 200 years ago. But all these things still happen today

If you are middle class, do you have working class friends?

Was that after the end of the Soviet Union?
When the war finally ends I wonder what will happen to the Oligarchs. Will they return to Russia do you think? I suppose it depends who’s in charge.

No, inteligencia class was always there, just had to be politically loyal. As for oligarchs, many of them are former communists/functionaries - who had access to resources and privilege back in the day. Like Putin himself.

OP, have you actually lived in any other European countries or are you just basing this on on whatever you read in the newspapers, see on TV etc? I am also Irish, have lived in the UK for years but also lived in the US and three other European countries. No country is a classless utopia believe me but often the things which differentiate between classes in those countries are not obvious to foreigners or visitors.

No, things have changed a lot since 1989. There's a lot of private schools around now.

One thing to note though, these grammar schools are generally state-run. They have a very similar system to what we had with the 11-plus, although they enter their secondary education when they're 14/15.

Yes, of course. Why wouldn't I? I also have working class family too. I also have a couple of friends who are multi millionaires. But they're America so not sure whether they would allocate a " class" to themselves😁 One definitely comes from a " working class " background, the other from a middle class one. But all are friends.

Of course 🙄

The above was meant for @Mooshamoo

Yep, if a family member was classed as an enemy of the people you were fucked by association.

Bribery and the black market were absolutely endemic too. If you wanted something that wouldn’t normally be available to you then you could pay (in money, goods, services) someone to either look the other way, or get it for you. The higher ranking party members had their own supplies of food and goods, separate to and of better quality than those of the average worker. Also, foreign cars and clothes for example.

Doesn’t mean you need to talk like you’re Mrs Bennett . I mean “marriageable “ seriously? Did feminism pass you buy?

some of your views are acrually quite offensive

Throughout. They didn’t disappear, but how visible they were depended on the political climate. Khrushchev was more liberal than Brezhnev, for example.

The oligarchs emerged under Yeltsin, and they invariably had ties to his administration and/or family. Whether they’ll return or not depends on how the land lies afterwards. You have the oligarchs that are in league with Putin, and those that weren’t/aren’t.

this is worth reading for more insight on Putin and his relationship with the Oligarchs:
https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2022/03/29/1088886554/how-putin-conquered-russias-oligarchy

Hmm I'm not sure. I had a German bf when I was younger and he was extremely snobby. Insisted on having designer clothes otherwise he felt substandard within Germany. Anyone that didn't go through a gymnasium was also peasantry, not such a great system.

I absolutely hate the class system here but i wonder that until the head of it ie the King is gone how can it no longer be a thing.

Also I thought the French had a school system where they had to have gone to certain schools to get top jobs? Not sure how true that is though.

Oh, and there were elite universities in the Soviet Union. An education at Lomonosov or Shevchenko university was more highly regarded than an education gained at a regional one.

Nearly all French leaders have been to the Ecole Nationale. A sort of French version of doing PPE at Oxford.

École nationale d'administration - Wikipedia

France has a highly exclusive and elitist system. Egalite part of ‘Liberté, égalité, fraternité’ is virtually non existent.

Whatever can be said about England, cold and cruel about class isn't it for most people.

Admittedly I've lived on the other side of the border for 20+ years but all the English people here that I know (and there are a few) aren't like that.

I think, that like for a lot of people, it's your family in particular.

My experience, as a non Brit, that is on her second relationship with an English man, have some English acquaintances and a couple of English friends - is that the English mostly mingle with the english. What is incredible is the number of English people I’ve met who live in London and only have English friends, who only have relationships with other English people, and so on. My own partner (who is only half English), has 2 friends who are not English.

to add a different angle to this

😂this thread is fucking nuts.