Aibu to think most European countries don't have an Education class system or a class system at all?

[Stellanotbud]

Aibu to think that most European countries especially former communist countries don't have a class system or educational class system like the UK.. Most kids all go to state school & muddle along? Snobbery isn't a prevelant in most European countries & educational standards are high & mostly state run.

I’ve spent most of my adult life in former Communist countries (one for a stint while it was still communist, and over the transition). There is still a lot of “Oh she is from a very good family” (usually a long line of lawyers or doctors), so I think there is still some snobbery and a class system. And that’s without mentioning the Roma. One of my friends has Roma grandparents but she would rather shoot herself than admit it to her peers.

Is this really an AIBU topic?

I live in a former communist country. The class system is most certainly a thing here and there is a huge gap between the poorest/working classes and the middle classes, much more so than in the UK.

If you didn't get into a grammar school here (gymnazium) and don't have a master's or equivalent (admittedly much easier to attain here than in the UK), you're seen as having failed education-wise.

It's more about family and money in many places than a perceived 'class' - so it is there but in different ways. In Denmark when we lived there people were obsessed about expensive light fittings , chairs and dinner service sets!!

Not a former communist country but a formerly fascist one portugal most certainly has fee paying schools, very old universities and a class system. Just because ppl no longer have titles doesn’t mean that ppl don’t know who the old families are & who the ‘good’ families are

Most European countries is a huge chunk of real estate.
I currently live in Switzerland, geographically Europe, but not in the EU and as an outsider it is nothing like the UK in terms of the completely obvious class system.
However, the education system here is streamed quite young. Which in theory could lead to a lot of snobbery about who does an apprenticeship vs goes to university, but it does not seem to happen. Those who do the apprenticeships end up in well paid jobs, so there is, to my mind, little snobbery about it.

Nope. Where I am (Germany) it's true that private schools as we think of them in the UK are a lot less of a thing, and many (such as church schools) charge very low fees based on parental income, but a child from a family where the parents completed the equivalent of A-levels is several times more likely, statistically, to get a recommendation for the most academic type of secondary school than a child whose parents don't have qualifications, or have what is called a 'migrant background'.

This is, however, generally recognised as a bad thing that needs to change. Parents on benefits or with low incomes can apply for 'education and participation' funding for school lunches, clubs/music lessons etc, and/or tutoring. Some years ago the government (grand coalition at the time, so not exactly raving lefties) launched a scholarship scheme offering grants for high-achieving university students who have had social or economic challenges to overcome in their lives. Anyone can apply for student finance based on parental income - it's half grant/half loan and covers maintenance because there are mostly no tuition fees.

There's also no perception that a young person absolutely must go to university to have a good career. Vocational routes are a very viable option, and it's possible to leave school after year 10 and go into very good ones if you are motivated and have good grades.

The parents from Eastern European countries my dc are friends with are all pushing their dc towards Engineering & science.. They place a huge emphasis on maths. It's interesting.

Really I thought former communist countries would be more equal at least educationally without many private schools & most it the former soviet bloc countries are known for their very high educational standards especially in STEM.

Every country has a class system. I've got family in Europe, the US and Latin America. They are all upper-middle class, although the European ones would say that in their country there isn't a class system. They all come from a line of upper-middle class British who met educated and privileged people in those countries and married them. They are all lovely people but it is clear they have lifestyles and experiences that the majority of people in their countries do not. Some countries it is easier to move up the class ladder though.

We’re Indian, it’s entrenched in our society. The horrible caste system. Although granted you said European.

I’ve worked in a few different European countries and can stay there is definitely still a huge gap in the class system. The same is also true in Asia and latin America.

@Stellanotbud Oh yes they do,

I think you need to have a re think 🤔 about that question....

I just visited the UK. I think it is a bizarre country.

So many utterly crazy things

The royal family, the aristocrats,
the rigid class system, the obsession with what school you went to.

It's like something from the 14th century.

It definitely hasn't moved with the times. It's an unusual place.

Class systems are utterly bizarre, cold and cruel.

Class systems say that people with money are better than people without money. Why? What does money have to do with the worth of a person?

It's a cruel, cold heartless system. It should be completely outlawed.

The school system in the UK is completely Draconian and cruel.

Richer people can pay for better schools. All government ministers and politicians come from these better schools.

The system benefits the same families over and over again, and it keeps everyone else down.

In the 90s I went to university in France. There were French students who, I kid you not, got dressed up in smart clothes and pearls type attire. They were referred to as “BCBG” or Bon chic Bon genre”,sort of very trendy and from a good family. I love France but they also use the term “Très snob.”

I also think that the class system in England makes people be very cold and cruel there.

I was born in England, I have an English parent, but I left England at a young age. This has enabled me to see England very realistically, every time I go back to visit it.

In England, people are taught to be cold, cruel, and to see other people as worth less than them, from a young age.

I just visited England and I was shocked at how cold and cruel the people there were to me. In England. People were horrible to me.

The reputation of English people around the world is that they are cold and cruel. We do not have a good reputation anywhere

Really @Mooshamoo it's not UK as I know it - a lot of it is how people express themselves as opposed being decent people. Most people dont give a fuck what school you went too as well. Lots of countries have monarchies as well - constitutional monarchies are a really stable form of government as well.

Of course every country has a class system. The markets are just different per country. Where I am the most obvious marker is how perfect is your English, as well as obviously accent in the local language. Low English level normally means no foreign holidays as kids, no tutoring, no pushy parents making kids watch English TV, no year abroad at university and no job in a big international company all of which are markers for less family money.

I'm half English. My English side of the family have always been extremely cold and cruel to me. Never caring about me. Never seeing me as really part of their family. Cutting me off etc.

I have tried to figure out why they are like that. And I have looked into the history of thr UK culture. I looked into my English family's history.

I realised that my English grandmother sent by father to a boarding school at age 8. They werent rich, my father won a scholarship to go there.

My father hated boarding school. He told me he cried all the time. He told me that he barely saw his parents. He told me it was a harsh cold system at the boarding school where the older boys bully the younger boys.

If we put boys into schools like that a young age in the UK, they are going to become cold and cruel. With a lack of empathy. Most UK politician come from these boarding schools

The entire UK system puts school and standing, before empathy, kindness and family.

I think this Is why English people become emotionally stunted.

And we have to admit, we are known around the world for being cold and cruel. I have visited many many countries, English people are known everywhere for being cold.

Definitely time to change

It's not UK as you know it.

Do you think that there is a lot of kindness and compassion in England?

Because I see class system, snobbery, cruelty much more than I see any kindness and compassion.

Why does all of our government come from private fee - paying schools? Is that equality?

At least in Britain the class system is there out in the open. In some European countries it’s much more insidious and equally damaging, but on an ‘if you know, you know’ basis.

Eh they so do. Germany, France and Luxembourg have a terrible system of splitting the kids according to "academic ability" but realistically class at 12 or younger

@Theeyeballsinthesky do you live in Portugal? We’re considering a move and would love to talk to someone there

YABU.

There’s definitely a class system in European countries. For example France/Spain/Italy/Germany have a long established aristocracy and upper middle class. It may look a bit different from the UK but the effect is the same.