Why is there so much sneering at Americans with European ancestry?

[BrBa]

I don’t understand! I identify with all my ancestors whether they came as religious refugees or early colonisers, were already indigenous to the region or brought in as slaves.

Yours
Swiss, German, Native American North, Central and South, Sephardic, Irish, South East African, Scottish, Acadian/French, and English

She was agreeing with you though?

The parades as we see them today are very clearly American in origin.

While there were some occasional parades on the island from 1931, these were not like the US influenced ones we see today.

St Patrick's Day was still mostly a religiously observed day until more recent modern times.

Indeed, the "wearing of the green" has been misunderstood first in the United States and then over here. Originally it simply meant wearing a bit of shamrock on your clothing. Not dressing up in green!

I think this thread is the typical British one when someone like Biden, the US President, shows how much he supports the GFA and how little he cares about a trade agreement with the UK, or attending a royal coronation.

The press in the UK, specially the DM, have always bombastically sold how the UK is "the special US friend", and they hate to be shown is really not special.

The Dublin parade is probably influenced by the US ones, but the small parades taking place in small towns around the country haven't changed hugely in the last 50 years. I was at them then and still go sometimes now, and they are still fairly low key. Irish dancers, local football teams marching, that sort of thing. A bit more Oirish merchandise is worn these days all right.

I know. But the fact is people outside Britain identify Irish as people from the ROI. The mix of identities in NI is more of an internal issue.

I'm not sure, I think it might depend where you are. I've come across Americans and British people who both think that NI should simply be reunited with Ireland, with seemingly no understanding that lots of the people who live there see themselves as British, and definitely not Irish at all. And when there is unrest in NI, the UK papers tend to speak of the problems in Ireland, that the Irish are misbehaving again etc - even when the particular incident they speak of involves only Loyalists.

Is it really?

Biden is making a State visit to the UK in June.

As far as Northern Ireland goes, Biden looked uncomfortable there. Just contrast the straitjacket he was metaphorically put in with how relaxed he was in the Republic. Its a big difference.

Biden is so gaffe prone everyone in Northern Ireland, including his team prayed he didn't go offscript and cause offence. He did that once relaxed in the ROI which he declared as "I'm home!".

I think it's quite clear Biden has an outdated view on what Irishness is (only Catholic) and that he doesn't regard Northern Ireland in the same way.

That said, I certainly think the UK should turn away from the US "special relationship" to focus more on our own continent. Certainly no more following the US into war, especially because they have shown their willingness to drop those wars like a hot potato. Even though they and their allies (UK and France) defeated the Taliban insurgency. What failed in the end was the Afghanistan Government and security forces they set up and trained. It shows there's no substitute for experience. Under Trump and Biden, the US clearly no longer had the heart to start again with the insurgency.

So, less US relationship and more European, I think. The US will come to depend on all of us in Europe as the century wears on due to the Ascendancy of China.

You are just confirming what I'm saying. If there are problems in NI the British press tend to identify it as an Irish issue, but that's the British press. Not how the rest of the world, or their press, sees it or reports it. There is a clear identity for the Republic of Ireland and their Irish people.

NI is an internal problem in the UK because the GFA has made it an issue for the EU as well. But that's politics. Few in the rest of the world are really interested or follow it.

The Belfast Agreement didn't make Northern Ireland an issue for the EU. What did was the Withdrawal Agreement, Ireland/Northern Ireland Protocol and the Windsor Framework.

The EU isn't even a signatory to the Agreement and wasn't involved in negotiations.

Despite how the international press portray it (especially US press), I'd agree that "Few in the rest of the world are really interested or follow it."

That's just human nature.

Okay, I wasn't clear on what you were saying.
You seemed to imply earlier that people from GB would (correctly) recognise the mix of identities in NI and my point was I'm not sure some of them do...in fact I'm sure they don't. For example, loyalists in NI do not generally identify as Irish but try telling that to parts of the British press.

Equally, if the rest of the world don't recognise that there are Irish in NI that is an issue, but I don't think this is true for many Americans at least.

Met lots of English saying they're Irish over the years but never met Irish person saying they're English...just an observation :)

@postapesto

It was so funny seeing all the black bin bags, at that stage he was actually gone from Dublin, and my god, the amount of guards everywhere, every corner you could count about 8 or 9 standing around chatting, looking at their phones and yet on any given day, you might be lucky if you see one, where do they all disappear to when his visit is over?? Thats what i want to know. Never a guard in sight when there is any trouble.

Perhaps not English, but there ARE Irish identifying people who also identify as British. It's quite logical as they do have British ancestry too.

'Met lots of English saying they're Irish over the years but never met Irish person saying they're English...just an observation :)'

Jesus, who's going to be proud of THAT??

I suppose if you look at this factually, in terms of probability it is much more likely as the population of England is 55 millionish, the population of Ireland 5 million, the population of London alone is 9 million. Generally many more English people to meet in life.

Pride about where you are from is not a cultural norm in England - i.e your place of birth is not an achievement. Obviously, when international sports events take place there is a vague patriotism but mostly it is seen as a bit vulgar to be wrapped in a St George's flag.

Not really. There are people in NI who identify as being British,but they aren't Irish

I don't know any Irish person who would identify as British. I know Irish people who have an English parent and are fully entitled to an Irish passport,but they don't identify as British and never would.

But census figures show that about 2% of people in NI do in fact identify as both British and Irish or as British, Irish and Northern Irish.
I know people in ROI who were born and grew up here but have strong British family links and one or two have English accents. I never asked how they see themselves though...

All I can say is familiarise yourself with the results of the Northern Ireland census results 2021......🍳 on 😐

You must not be from Northern Ireland otherwise you'd have easily understood the different combinations of identities.

It appears to me that the ROI census does not ask questions about identity. If so, then it's unlikely anyone will tell you they also identify as British too.

But it's not out of the realms of possibility they do, especially since the Northern Ireland census tells us this is so.

But that's a first name which has become a surname, not a surname that has been used as a first name (the situation the PP was on about).

Until 1536 Wales had a patronymic system; your father's first name became your second name - Evan ap Thomas was Evan, son of Thomas. When Henry VIII formally absorbed Wales into England this system gradually gave way to the English system - whatever second name you had at the time you changed (it started as early as the 13th century with those who had moved to England, in rural areas of Wales this was as late as the 19th century) became the family name, handed down as in England. So Evan was now Evan Thomas and his son was Gwyn Thomas.

Quite different from turning a surname back into a forename. The surname "Price" is a contraction of "ap Rhys" and you wouldn't have seen people give their kids the forename "Price" until possibly quite recently.

that's because most people on the mainland would regard people in NI as Irish I think.

You didn't understand. Of course the NI census tells us that some NI people identify as British. They ARE British (technically UK). They aren't identifying as it, they are it. Everypone born in NI is British, even the ones that identify as Irish.

But you wob't find any significant number,if any number at all, of Irish people from the country of Ireland who identify as British. Because they are not, unless they have a British parent, and even then it is extremely likely they would never.

It's cultural. Irish people are Irish and when mistaken for part of the UK tend to be very pissed off. Part of the cultural identity is literally identifying as "not-British, sod off".

unlikely they would ever. Bloody dyslexia\