Why is there so much sneering at Americans with European ancestry?

[BrBa]

I don’t understand! I identify with all my ancestors whether they came as religious refugees or early colonisers, were already indigenous to the region or brought in as slaves.

Yours
Swiss, German, Native American North, Central and South, Sephardic, Irish, South East African, Scottish, Acadian/French, and English

I don't think there is sneering - some of the US you tubers I follow want to explore their UK and Irish roots and watch a lot of video around these topics - they tend to be affable and curious and comment sections tend to point them at more information and clarify points. There are whole industries out there catering for their visits over.

I see it as a cultural difference - my GGP were welsh but I am still English living in Wales - even my DC going to welsh schools one here since she was 5 see themselves as English though British first I think. My oldest two were born in Yorkshire, a place with as tiring cultural identity, but haven't not really been raise there wouldn't consider them selves Yorkshire men/women.

DH paternal ancestor left Ireland same time as Biden - it's been followed back because of the unusual surname it's likely a corruption of an Irish name - name was spelt different every time till kids seem to have settled on a spelling - none of them think of themselves as Irish - though they are proud of the connection.

I think it only gets negative rather than a cultural quirk when you hear the stories of ethnic minorities born in UK or Ireland who may even be second or third generations get told by US citizens they aren't those nationalities.

I think Biden getting flack because it does seem to be electioneering to his US base around an area that is very sensitive in UK and Ireland politics.

Lol @Anotheronetwoone that's certainly not why I've said anything. I genuinely believe this is a race issue and it's cementing the whole I'm European because I'm Irish therefore I'm superior to others who are non European. (This being thought process going on before he's even become president)

Being 'Irish' in the USA, as the president, will have political implications that's what's upset a lot of people as well, that he's abusing that stance.

Reality has to be faced sometimes. The English are not universally admired or even liked as a people around the world. Maybe that is because of its previous colonial history, maybe it's their sense of entitlement and superiority I don't know. But what I do know is that the steam of racism agains the Irish in particular is visibly rising from this thread. It is disgusting but not surprising.

No wonder Brexit happened, it is the evidence that British (English mostly) who voted for it think they are better than everyone else, don't need pesky EU, don't need anyone, we fought and won the war - you peasants. The Royal Family is revered and adored by many, why? Maybe they symbolise the sense of greatness of the Empire or something.

But that no longer exists, and it is no wonder that the formerly colonised have little time for largely English Brits. It is just a fact of history.

And to this day it keeps on giving. I am so disappointed to see the sneering and subtle racism against the Irish in particular on this thread.

Plus ca change et plus reste la meme chose.

Name/nationality changed but… my mother called me “Amelie” because it was a pretty name and because I look a certain way, people have always assumed I am French although I am not. It’s affected the way many people treat me (unconsciously) to begin with. So, like it or not certain names do come with cultural markers.

The bigger issue here though is why Biden keeps saying crazy stuff.

I sneer. It's ridiculous and misrepresentative to claim a relative's nationality as your own no matter many times you explain "oh, it's just shorthand" or "what we really mean is..."

The false claim even extends to a completely unfounded sense of authority as well. In one memorable example I had someone in a Facebook group explain Dutch culture to me at great length based on her being Dutch. Although I have Dutch citizenship, live here, and speak the language I rarely call myself Dutch so I heard her out then asked which part of the Netherlands she is from. Turned out she'd never been here but based her Dutchness on one grandparent who was born in a border town.... in Germany 🥴

I would say that visible accepted markers of race - being white, in Biden's case - are far more important than ethnicity or identity in establishing how people are categorised in the US. Biden's white, whether his ancestors are Swedish, Polish, Irish, and whether he identifies with them or not.

Irish identity is certainly relevant to an American president. That's useful for Ireland. But Biden's Irish identity long predates his presidency.

Of course this is politics,on both sides. Not every returning Irish American gets a four day state visit! But I don't see many people being upset about it.

It's a good political situation, for Ireland, and perhaps for Biden though the culture where this really mattered is shifting in the US. It's not particularly good for Britain, but why should it be? If British people are upset that Biden declares an emotional attachment to Ireland, they might want to ask why. Can one only respect Britain by putting it first in the pecking order? Can other nations matter as much as Britain?

@CordyLines i for one didn’t vote to leave the EU, along with another 48% of the population, just for balance.

I dunno @CordyLines I'd say your last post sounds pretty racist actually. I think it's weird to claim to be something your not and not just if what you say is Irish. So it really isn't anti-Irish. I mean I could do it and say I'm Jamaican because I have a grandparent from there and lots of cousins living there and even lived there for a few months as a kid. But I'm not Jamaican so I don't. I was born and have lived the majority of my life in London as have my parents therefore I am British. My experience of life is completely different to my cousins who grew up and still live in Kingston. Why would I claim otherwise? I'd also think it was weird if they called themselves British.
And not all English people voted Brexit either fyi. In fact just like Scotland us Londoners voted to stay, because we on the whole consider ourselves European.

I understand, and I did say "those who voted for it" in my post.

I think it only gets negative rather than a cultural quirk when you hear the stories of ethnic minorities born in UK or Ireland who may even be second or third generations get told by US citizens they aren't those nationalities.

And the same happens here with non-white Americans, yet it’s always made out to be only the States do this.

It is a bit odd claiming you are a certain heritage when it's really distant. I'm 1/8 German but that doesn't make me German!

Yeah, it's just a bit odd. My grandmother was born in Wales, her ancestors are Welsh, but I don't say I'm Welsh - I've never even been there and grew up England. My grandmother doesn't even say she is Welsh, she moved to England as a child and doesn't have an accent or any of the language. I might say "have some Welsh heritage" if asked but that's it. Similarly I have German great grandparents through my father, but it's nothing to do with me, never met them, never been there, had no impact on me.

Nice bit of casual racism in the morning.

For starters it wasn't the English who colonised it was the British. Just as they themselves were repeatedly throughout history. Just as countless others did. The Irish themselves were.

No country has clean hands so don't let your prejudices conviently cherry pick history.

Yes, but your ancestors were not forced to leave because of famine and oppression. They did not create a community built on their culture and traditions. You were not brought up immersed in those cultures and traditions.
You might find it odd but you have a completely different experience. It is not odd in America or in Ireland. It is perfectly normal.

@phoenixrosehere

And the same happens here with non-white Americans, yet it’s always made out to be only the States do this.

I think it happens much less than it every used to and is increasingly seen as unacceptable - it hit the headlines and was widely condemned when there was that were are you from thing at royal event recently.

I'm also not claiming the UK is perfect by any means- the met office conduct around ethic groups in London has been unacceptable and there are many problems and areas we could and should do better in.

I think the USA has long history of pointing to others to avoid looking at their own huge issues though.

Also doesn't change fact Biden is using a politically sensitive area to other countries to electioneer for his own ends.

That's the equivalent rebuttal to "I'm not racist, I have a black friend" 😂

Also doesn't change fact Biden is using a politically sensitive area to other countries to electioneer for his own ends.

America is a guarantor of the Good Friday Agreement. Until Biden was elected, the Brexiteers in government were all set to break it. They have played with that notion since. They have shown absolute contempt for UK treaty obligations, for all of Ireland (and for international law) in their push to leave the free market.

Biden did draw attention to this, and he had a right to do so.

It's odd that the peace process in NI is sacred so anything that looks like the US president may benefit from being at the 25th anniversary is appalling abuse but brexit was just fine.

@belleager and @StephanieSuperpowers I do agree with this 100%. I completely get why Biden is visiting Ireland at the moment and acting as such a strong supporter of Ireland and the Irish. Over and above Britain, particularly with the crazy way the British authorities are acting. I just think it's weird that he claims to BE Irish. Or calls Ireland home.
And I am British. But I am not anti Irish (or American or Irish-American) I just take issue with people claiming to be something they're not. It's dishonest. And weird.

He is not claiming to be something he isn't though. He grew up completely immersed in Irish culture. It has been part of his identity for his whole life instilled in him by his parents and grandparents. He has been to Ireland many times, researched his family history and been very close to his Irish cousins for decades. Some American presidents do play up their Irish ancestors but Biden is not one of them.

I think Brexit is a complex issue - and as I voted remain and can see no few benefits - but it does seem to be massively misunderstood in USA especially.

I also think it hard to gauge how helpful his spotlight is actually being - I suspect time will tell there.

I'm also not saying it's right how he being mocked - as I do think he genuinely enthusiastic about his visit - but he's engaged in blatant home based electioneering and there will be blow back with that and not everyone prepared to ignore what he is clearly doing and exploiting a cultural quirk to make him seem ridiculous was always going to be on the cards.

I also don't see all the media doing it and no-one in RL I've met is mentioned him at all - so I don't think everyone is sneering - sections of the press - mainly print media - yes - everyone no.

Thanks @Swiftbushome

It is just that if you spend time in Ireland or among Irish Americans you will see that Biden's cultural identity is very normal, and widely understood. A big part of our own, Irish, President's role is to connect with our Irish diaspora. Our politicians all wander the globe doing this every St Patrick's Day. Biden reminds me of all the American relatives who visit just once, in old age, when they've retired. It can be very emotional.

If Biden came to Britain and claimed to be British I would understand people there objecting if that's not in their understanding of Britishness. But this doesn't apply to Ireland.

Why does it "irk" you? Why do you even care?

I agree with posters saying it doesn't bother them how Americans identify. It's their way. Not the right way or the wrong way, just their way. Where I live, if an obviously mixed race kid opens their mouth and has a local accent, that's it, deal sealed, they're Irish. But those are our unwritten rules. Other countries have their own. So be it!

I agree with all of this. Surely most Americans can read a room? They must realise quite quickly that saying 'I'm Scottish' to an actual Scottish person in Scotland is confusing and odd. It makes them look a bit silly. It's unlikely a Scottish person would judge an American for saying they have Scottish heritage.

If an American chooses to ignore the confusion they cause and when they state that they are Scottish on a holiday to Scotland then they deserve a bit of judgement. They probably don't care anyway.

I don't know why people are getting so upset that they may be mildly judged for this type of behaviour outside of the US. It's not as if a Scottish person is going to agressively shout at them for saying something that sounds a bit silly to them!