To be annoyed that private school parents are demonised?

[Imsorryyoufeelthatway]

Starting this threat to vent and as an antidote to the Closing all private schools would benefit state schools thread. In short, I'm a bit fed up with private school parents being bashed for buying a better education for their children, while parents who 'don't believe in private education' and spend a fortune on homes/second homes/rental properties in catchment areas for 'good' state schools then another fortune on tutors seem to get off scot free.

I'm also fed up with private school parents all being lumped in the same category. We're not all selfish, mega-wealthy, Bullingdon Club (or female equivalent, if there was one...) alumni; many of us are ordinary people (I'm a working class lass from a council estate whose parents worked as cleaners and in warehouses) who've worked bloody hard to be able to afford a better start in life for our children than we had. We were the first people in our families to go to university (on full grants, when they existed), the first to have careers not just jobs, and the first to own our own homes. No-one has ever handed us a penny – my DH got the train to university with £4.50 in his pocket and had to get a job straight away to buy food. No bank account, no trust fund, no-one paying his rent. We've managed to achieve social mobility against the odds, yet we're not allowed to celebrate this because we've chosen to invest in our children's future rather than over-priced property in 'good' state school catchment areas.

Yes, we all know that private schools are a major cause of inequality. Parents like us have literally lived and breathed that inequality our whole lives and we'd do anything to prevent our children having to do the same. We think that all children should have access to high quality education in safe, inspirational environments where they can achieve their potential, not just ours. But most state schools in the UK just cannot meet this requirement. We also know that if catchment areas for state schools were mixed-up, and the schools in deprived areas had an influx of children from more affluent areas and vice versa, then this would likely make things more equal over time. But our children are not part of a social experiment. In short, if those of us who had difficult starts in life and went to terrible schools choose to work our arses off so our children don't have to, can't we be given some credit?

So please, the next time you're tempted to lump a private school parents into the same category and give them a bashing, take a moment to consider their reasons and background. Rant over.

It's not the parents that are being demonised though, it's the system.

I'm sure there are a few posts where people are actually being rude about people who send their kids to private school but they are very few

Yes I hate hypocrisy. I cannot afford for my kids to go to private school.

But my friends have all moved catchment area to send their kids to the best schools and grammar schools. They paid their kids to get private coaches through the 11+.

If they’d paid for private then at least there would be more places for poorer kids to get to those grammar schools or local children to have a chance. But no, they pat themselves on the back for ‘propping up the public democratic school system’ whilst squeezing out any chance of social mobility or better schools for those without.

I actually think that is worse. Not only do they want their kids to go to the best schools and now can only think of ‘Russel Group’ Universities. But they won’t even pay for it - they get the state to pay for their inequalities!

one DS in particular would have achieved the same excellent results in the state sector or because of any old boys net work which neither have utilised but because they received a fantastic renaissance education that now they are grown up they personally benefit from.

I’ve never heard of famous boarding schools (let’s say you were referring to Eton) called “renaissance education” - what does that mean?

some Private school.
Not all are charities and plenty do support their local communities

My kids go to state school and I am really happy with it. I think the teachers really try their best to raise the standards for all children there. Which is going to be far more of a challenge than it would be for private schools / grammar school intakes.

Whilst I think it's reasonable that people should have choice over their child's education, I don't think it's particularly fair that people get to hothouse their often mediocre children through prep school with the blinkered view of snatching up the grammar school places. Those places were supposed to be for the gifted and talented and quite clearly they are not so much anymore.

What's worse though is people that abuse the systems, send their child to private, with a view to sending them back to state in the last year's in order to take, again from other less advantaged children, university places that were supposed to benefit state school/ less advantaged kids. I hope universities do make sure they explore all the schools children have been to previously, when applications for uni places are made.

Having said this, I have no issue with private schools whose specialism is SEN.

Overall though, I'd like to see the top tier schools turned into state. Rather than the continued stream of inadequate leaders coming from these schools, the who you know types and the nepotism that continues to screw over the population.

Abolish private schools and increase taxes on those who have the funds to send their kids to private schools so that the additional tax revenue can be invested into the state school system. Private schools are wrong on so many levels.

I just don't understand the MN obsession with inequality as a result of private education but practically no acknowledgement of the privileges that exist in pretty much everything we do that influences how children grow up.

It starts from before birth - evidence shows white women are listened to and acknowledged when issues arise in pregnancy and childbirth.
Skin colour - sadly this extends throughout life no matter how much people may try deny it
Evidence for early years which discusses how talking to babies/toddlers and engaging with them has significant impact on their brain development in the first 2 years. Likewise for the types of meals parents feed their children in early years
Nursery exposure - somehow it is considered acceptable to use private nursery from 3 years at significantly higher cost than a school nursery due to the provision of wrap around care but this is an inequality when people use private schools for the same reason. Many private nurseries have smaller ratios, additional provisions, teaching, facilities and excursions compared to a school one
As others have mentioned, parental involvement in education - reading with children, working on their weaknesses at home and trying to get the best from their education
Extra curricular activities and having the funds to put into a sport/hobby your child is talented at so they can excel and compete should they wish
Taking children abroad and exposing them to different cultures
Opportunities which arise from being part of a local community whether that be through faith, culture or something else
Ability to go to university
House size, quiet study space free of distractions
Academic aptitude
Healthcare provision and ability to afford private

The things mentioned above are a tiny number of the many different privileges children can have from an early age. We cannot make them all equal but why the obsession with private education as though it exists in a bubble as the sole one that needs to be eradicated?!

The biggest privilege where education is concerned is having an involved parent who is invested in their child's education and wellbeing. One who takes the time to read with them daily and encourage their interests. The status/networks associated with private schooling is not the case with the majority of private schools - it is associated with the top public schools for the very wealthy. They would educate their children privately in another country if we didn't have the schools here

The 'we are just a normal/average family who work hard and sacrifice to send our kids private' narrative is really really unaware of the reality of most people's lives. You're rich if you can afford it and to minimise that good fortune is tone deaf (I don't think you were intending that though OP)

This^ We could afford for DD to go private but I think the money would be better used for driving lessons/car/house deposit etc. I don't really care if people send their kids to a private school (aside from the whole overrepresentation of overprivileged privately educated tossers in government). But it does annoy me when a woman I know boasts about her DS's GCSE results and puts it down to his brilliance rather than the tiny classes, the extra tuition provided etc.

I went to a state school, as did my DC’s. However, I congratulate you on making the necessary sacrifices to enable your children to receive private education. I cannot see how it’s anybody’s business how you spend your money.

You still pay your taxes towards state education for everyone else, without expecting anything in return.

Please ignore the threads criticising your choices for your family.

But it does annoy me when a woman I know boasts about her DS's GCSE results and puts it down to his brilliance rather than the tiny classes, the extra tuition provided etc.

It's really weird isn't it.

I'd prefer a system where private schools are closed and the state system caters for everyone well.

BUT: the simple facts are that the state system was not able to cater for my child, and that they have special educational needs which do not receive legal recognition or provision in England/Wales. So when a brief initial period with the state system had made us realize that state education was never going to work, we found a (private) school that could cope better.
You can be against private school on principle, but still ethically send your child to one. Nobody should be required to sacrifice their child on the altar of their liberal principles.
In short, my responsibility to state education ends at the ballot box. I've voted consistently for parties that would have funded state education, and would have much preferred to send my kid to a state school, but I will not sacrifice their childhood or future while the state system cannot provide adequately for them.

If you want to send your kids to private schools then send your kids to private school, but don’t bang on about how hard it is for you. You make choices - own them.

Dear@MrsMurphyIWish

I did not say we went without
Or indeed say we sacrificed anything.
We simply did not see all the extra life add ones as necessary when we were happy to spend our money elsewhere.
Not disputing that there may be people who moan about the cost of private education. My belief is that if you’re moaning about it maybe you’ve made the wrong choice.

Luckily we have a choice.

So do people without children. And they are expecting something in return a lot of the time. The free grammar school places. It's rare that a kid gets into those schools that hasn't been hothoused into it.

👏👏👏

I can hear tiny violins playing 🤣 not only do you want inequality and privilege, you want applause for it.

Maybe if people start off down the private route, they should prove they have enough money and sign a contract to keep their kids in private right to the end of secondary. That would be fairer. Wouldn't it.

But doesn’t University create inequality.

and if I’m not academically minded - won’t I therefore suffer long term from those who are.

If not - what’s the point of University if it doesn’t benefit the person attending.

I have no issues with an eradication of inequality - but I think private schools are an easy target.

want to solve inequality - it’s about helping the weakest, supporting the struggling and forcing the lazy.

you don’t all climb a ladder by cutting the top of it off - you climb it by getting those who can get to the top easier to help those who can’t or struggle.

by the same token of getting rid of private schools - we should get rid of all grammar and academies - and then everything becomes a comprehensive. You then have to make sure the best teachers dont have a choice where they work - because everywhere has to provide the same level of teaching and if one gets great - you have to rein it in.

That is, if you interested in providing an equal level playing field in academics. Otherwise it’s just bashing people, not all rich, who make different choices than cars and holidays and stuff.

We all make choices and have to stand by them. My DC went to private prep and then one to an 'outstanding' state and the other to a top boarding school. My DS chose the state school so he would not be pillared as a politician. It was useful to him and he works with the government. My DD is at a private university due to SEN. Do I apologise? no. I come from a genteel impoverished family, my husband wc immigrant family. We gave up a lot to afford the school years. I wouldn't change anything. My DC both have a huge sense of public duty. They are certainly not 'trusta t*ssers'.
I suspect the OP has been attacked and made to feel over priveladged when I suspect their school life was pretty shit (mine was, head down the loo frequently). The reason my DH and I did well was because of parents who cared, read books and watched the news. We have a very over subscribed state school in our town and tbh it has resulted in 70% of houses being bought by London escapees. The school is active in encouraging SEN children to go else where to protect their results. I am a school governor in a neighbouring town and prefer the divserity and understanding my school has. It has 42 nationalities and a disability suite. That's a level playing field.

This exactly!!!! People missing the point - if I had the money I would play the system too. But the point is lots of people don't. I don't demonise the parents I hate the system! It needs to change.

@MelchiorsMistress

The real inequality in education comes from parental involvement and attitude. In nearly every school there will be parents that are engaged, involved and who encourage their children to value their education and respect their teachers, and there will be other parents who don’t care about those things. The disadvantaged children are the ones whose parents won’t read with them, or practice times tables and who think the school is 100% responsible for education, not the ones who simply go to state school instead of private.

Nail on the head!

'But it does annoy me when a woman I know boasts about her DS's GCSE results and puts it down to his brilliance rather than the tiny classes, the extra tuition provided etc.

It's really weird isn't it.'

I work in education, sort of. Local outstanding 6th form is starting to get more applications from private schooled kids as parents are panicking that private all the way to A level's will be to their child's detriment when they apply to Uni. College still favours state kids as it has a remit for local community which is very state heavy.

Teachers there have told me difference they notice is the state school pupils over private is that the private educated ones are less resilient, need or expect a lot more hand holding and really struggle to work & manage their time independently. Parent's are constantly on the phone demanding this and that, until the eventually, finally get the message that their children 1) need to deal direct with the tutors over routine stuff 2) that they aren't going to have exceptions made 3) that they don't have time to respond to nonsensical parental demands on their time.

All of which has led me to the conclusion that private school is mainly about the social 'capital' and buying results for your child, neither of which are going to make them into well rounded adults ready to face the real world.

This is what angers people - you can’t claim others have made “bad choices” - sometimes there isn’t a choice. You yourself have said you were “lucky”.

FWIW, I’m a teacher. I can’t afford private school but am not bitter as my husband and I can tutor our own children (he’s a teacher too). I’m just thinking about the students I have taught who were capable of so much but will have a “ceiling” on their new ring potential/opportunities because they aren’t there for the vast majority of students in deprived areas. I am angry on their behalf - they have not got a choice to go anywhere but their local comp, it doesn’t mean they have made a “bad choice” and any less deserving.

*earning potential

This exactly the vast majority don't have the choice of private ever... no matter how many jobs they have or holidays they don't go on. It is completely forever out of their reach!