To be annoyed that private school parents are demonised?

[Imsorryyoufeelthatway]

Starting this threat to vent and as an antidote to the Closing all private schools would benefit state schools thread. In short, I'm a bit fed up with private school parents being bashed for buying a better education for their children, while parents who 'don't believe in private education' and spend a fortune on homes/second homes/rental properties in catchment areas for 'good' state schools then another fortune on tutors seem to get off scot free.

I'm also fed up with private school parents all being lumped in the same category. We're not all selfish, mega-wealthy, Bullingdon Club (or female equivalent, if there was one...) alumni; many of us are ordinary people (I'm a working class lass from a council estate whose parents worked as cleaners and in warehouses) who've worked bloody hard to be able to afford a better start in life for our children than we had. We were the first people in our families to go to university (on full grants, when they existed), the first to have careers not just jobs, and the first to own our own homes. No-one has ever handed us a penny – my DH got the train to university with £4.50 in his pocket and had to get a job straight away to buy food. No bank account, no trust fund, no-one paying his rent. We've managed to achieve social mobility against the odds, yet we're not allowed to celebrate this because we've chosen to invest in our children's future rather than over-priced property in 'good' state school catchment areas.

Yes, we all know that private schools are a major cause of inequality. Parents like us have literally lived and breathed that inequality our whole lives and we'd do anything to prevent our children having to do the same. We think that all children should have access to high quality education in safe, inspirational environments where they can achieve their potential, not just ours. But most state schools in the UK just cannot meet this requirement. We also know that if catchment areas for state schools were mixed-up, and the schools in deprived areas had an influx of children from more affluent areas and vice versa, then this would likely make things more equal over time. But our children are not part of a social experiment. In short, if those of us who had difficult starts in life and went to terrible schools choose to work our arses off so our children don't have to, can't we be given some credit?

So please, the next time you're tempted to lump a private school parents into the same category and give them a bashing, take a moment to consider their reasons and background. Rant over.

Yes I've noticed people doing this too. Which again is unfair when state educated kids come to the time to apply for 6th form, even in their own schools, and they find they are up against competition from the privately educated who are looking to take advantage / snatch the opportunities that were supposed to level out the playing field for state kids. Those people make me sick tbh.

@Cheesecakeandwineinasuitcase what absolute nonsense

Certain parents already pay taxes for nhs and state school fees Ben if they use private school and private healthcare (often through instance)

are you also proposing to tax parents who can afford second homes to get into catchment, more expensive holidays to enrich their children’s experiences, tutors to get through 11+, lots of extra curricular activities, cars to drive to the local grammar school

oh what abojt people who don’t have children but can afford Chanel bags - tax them more too because they choose to spend their money on that

or is it only the parent who can just about afford to pay £1k extra a month for private school to the detriment of everything else because that is where their priority lies

Your post is nonsense

*often through insurance

typos because I am breastfeeding a baby - doesn’t take away from my post

TBH it might help if the exam system were changed. I know there are already plenty of universities that are championing fair access using outreach programs, foundation years and contextual offers etc but the current exam system still does not reflect a child's true ability.

Kid 1 does A level Maths in a 'nice' Sixth form college. Has 28 in the class and 5 hours teaching a week. Homework not always marked and often not marked. Has had four different teachers plus classes cancelled etc

Kid 2 does A level Maths in a private school. FOUR kids in the class plus 10 hours teaching a week plus extra one on one sessions . Lots of homework and feed back. That's crazy isn't it.

This example is an actual real example where I know the details are true.

If you can't change the junior and secondary education system then you can change the effects of that education on access to Higher education.

I agree with you OP and I can’t afford to send my children to private school. I would if I needed to and could though.

I really don’t get those who decide that private schooling is the villain when there are so many other areas of privilege that mean children do better in life such as child having it’s own room, parents still together, holidays each year, private tutoring, different hobbies, the list is endless.

My best friend (who I love dearly) and I have this debate fairly often as she can afford to send her kids but won’t ‘on principle’ as she doesn’t feel it would be fair for her children to benefit.

However, she has moved to the most expensive part of the city in a beautiful 6 bed, 3 storey Victorian town house in the catchment area of one of the best state schools on the county. is that not just as much privilege as a private school?

It is not right.

Get rid of top tier schools such as Eton.

Anyone else that chooses private should stay in private, right to the end.

That seems fairer.

Particularly when it comes to applying for uni places. There's no opportunity for the private school parents to pretend their kids went to state school, when they clearly didn't.

We have a middle school system in my town. All the state primary’s bar one are brilliant. As soon as the kids move up to the middle schools and to the one and only college they are at a disadvantage because these schools are crap (as is widely known by parents in our town). I have a friend who teaches at the local college. She has made the decision to send both of her children to the private school because she knows the college is crap and she admits it. I cannot afford to send my children to a private school and have to accept that from next year my eldest is going to a school where he will get a sub standard education in a school where kids are vaping in the corridors and even the teachers won’t send their own children there…

Given the price paid for that house is probably at least £100k more than a normal house - if not more

and a lot of prep schools are about £1.2k pcm (based on London) which can be taken out of income and are often cheaper than nursery - well the maths speaks for itself

so yes your friend is extremely privileged

are you also proposing to tax parents who can afford second homes to get into catchment

There are already rules about this. And kids have lost their places if the parents have been found out.

Its 7% and it rises to 18% of all children over 16.

But we live in a democracy.
My dh and I both went to comps in the 70s and 80s.

My dhs was really rough with absolutely no expectation of anyone going onto any type of further education. My parents didn’t buy books, encourage me or support my choice to go to university, but I did it anyway as did my dh.

So many more can these days and there are more opportunities aswell as university.
People in deprived areas now have a much better chance of, for example, getting into Unis with Access arrangements requiring lower grades than the standard entry requirements. They still are a struggle to achieve, but an awful lot do. A step-cousin of mine for example was required lower grades for Uni due to her living situation Didn’t get those grades but was given a place anyway as some Unis are required to offer a certain number of these places.

But again you are twisting my words.
I did not say those who have no choice due to finances are making bad choices ….that would be a truly appalling thing to say.

YANBU There's a massive inequality in state schools too, mostly in direct relation to house pricing.
Let's not race to the bottom, how about we lift the bottom up instead?

Politically my dad was left wing and anti private education but luckily he didn’t put that before my happiness and well-being.

Ah. A hypocrite then. Champagne socialist type. There's a lot of them.

I think the biggest problem with private schools is that kids who go to them are often completely lacking in self-awareness and don't understand how to have "normal" conversations or relate to people outside their bubble. Rishi Sunak is a public example of that, but I saw it with everyone I went to university with who was from that background.

No awareness that no one wanted to hear their 20 min long personal anecdote in a small university seminar, no understanding that deciding which of their clothes to take skiing isn't the biggest problem ever, general lack of compassion/me first attitude.

We had a guy in our sixth form English class who'd transferred from a private school. He soon got the direct approach and became a reasonable person in the end.

But most people who go through that system don't get it knocked out of them and are unaware they're like that.

A lot of people happen to share my opinion. I’m guessing your children go to private school then..l

worked bloody hard to be able to afford a better start in life for our children than we had. We were the first people in our families to go to university (on full grants, when they existed), the first to have careers not just jobs, and the first to own our own homes. No-one has ever handed us a penny – my DH got the train to university with £4.50 in his pocket and had to get a job straight away to buy food. No bank account, no trust fund, no-one paying his rent. We've managed to achieve social mobility against the odds.

most people work very hard and have no hand outs - I’m not sure why your making a martyr of yourself and oh so common background.
no matter how hard most work they won’t be able to afford private school fees so I’m unclear what hard work has to do with it.
Its common knowledge that the best jobs go to the top 5% privileged enough attend private school. It’s just a fact that the overall system would be better if they didn’t exist, however they do and I’m sure most parents only want the best for their children. Coming on to here to defend your choice seems very goady and unnecessary especially in the current climate.

The bottom isn't being lifted though is it when the parents with money take advantage. They're making the problem worse.

@MattDillonsEyebrows
I really don’t get those who decide that private schooling is the villain when there are so many other areas of privilege that mean children do better in life such as child having it’s own room, parents still together, holidays each year, private tutoring, different hobbies, the list is endless

All these things are important but a good education for everyone has to be more important. Too many children don't stand a chance and it's not their fault.

I’m all for private schools as it’s less spaces taken in state schools by families who have choices.

This is the attitude you need to cultivate, OP. Make your choices for your kids, whatever. Just own those choices. People would have a lot more respect for you. And they are choices, not sacrifices, to send your kids private.

Whilst I understand wanting your children to have a better chance than you did, I actually find private school parents with your background harder to stomach. You know how much harder children from deprived backgrounds have to work compared to those from affluent backgrounds. You’ve still chosen to put your money into keeping that inequality going.

My DH has a similar background to you (as does my dad). He’s worked incredibly hard and beaten the odds to work alongside people who mainly have the education you’ve chosen for your children. It’s a hard decision to make, but we would never buy into private school.It’s not right on a societal level and it’s unfair on our children to prevent them mixing with children from all walks of life. My children already benefit from having a comfortable life with educated parents, they don’t need us to make life anymore unequal by paying for them to go to school with other privileged kids.

@moomoomoo27 this is a bit of a generalisation! Rishi went to Winchester which is one of the best boys schools in the country - and a public school

most private schools are not like this! They have working parents who can afford to pay a little extra per month

I agree with this - it is about buying the results - playing the system. I am involved in UCAS process in my job and can see this is definitely the case. I am not blaming parents for this at all and can totally understand why it happens. The system needs a big overhaul - I am pleased to see from Sept 2024 UCAS will no longer require personal statements - which is definitely a step in the right direction