To be annoyed that private school parents are demonised?

[Imsorryyoufeelthatway]

Starting this threat to vent and as an antidote to the Closing all private schools would benefit state schools thread. In short, I'm a bit fed up with private school parents being bashed for buying a better education for their children, while parents who 'don't believe in private education' and spend a fortune on homes/second homes/rental properties in catchment areas for 'good' state schools then another fortune on tutors seem to get off scot free.

I'm also fed up with private school parents all being lumped in the same category. We're not all selfish, mega-wealthy, Bullingdon Club (or female equivalent, if there was one...) alumni; many of us are ordinary people (I'm a working class lass from a council estate whose parents worked as cleaners and in warehouses) who've worked bloody hard to be able to afford a better start in life for our children than we had. We were the first people in our families to go to university (on full grants, when they existed), the first to have careers not just jobs, and the first to own our own homes. No-one has ever handed us a penny – my DH got the train to university with £4.50 in his pocket and had to get a job straight away to buy food. No bank account, no trust fund, no-one paying his rent. We've managed to achieve social mobility against the odds, yet we're not allowed to celebrate this because we've chosen to invest in our children's future rather than over-priced property in 'good' state school catchment areas.

Yes, we all know that private schools are a major cause of inequality. Parents like us have literally lived and breathed that inequality our whole lives and we'd do anything to prevent our children having to do the same. We think that all children should have access to high quality education in safe, inspirational environments where they can achieve their potential, not just ours. But most state schools in the UK just cannot meet this requirement. We also know that if catchment areas for state schools were mixed-up, and the schools in deprived areas had an influx of children from more affluent areas and vice versa, then this would likely make things more equal over time. But our children are not part of a social experiment. In short, if those of us who had difficult starts in life and went to terrible schools choose to work our arses off so our children don't have to, can't we be given some credit?

So please, the next time you're tempted to lump a private school parents into the same category and give them a bashing, take a moment to consider their reasons and background. Rant over.

Or get offended when people tell them the perception of their privately educated children by the rest of the population may well be that they've been handheld through life, tutored through exams, are overconfident, arrogant and not very resilient

Such nonsense and reflective of your own prejudices.

Nice speech but you still get a massive eye roll from me. Nothing anyone can ever say will convince me that it's a good idea to have anything other than a comprehensive education system. I will always dislike the private schooling and grammar systems with a passion.

Fwiw my husband was working class and very poor and created a well-paying career for himself from nothing too. We are very happy that both our children went to ordinary comprehensive schools in SE London where the education they have had in life, warts and all, has been invaluable. We didn't move to the catchment of the local outstanding school either.

So - own your decision and don't bleat about it. It is bound to be unpopular with many people.

So you're willing to contribute to the inequality that you suffered from?

I think your point about buying into catchments and paying for tutors is a good one. Lots of people (including MNers) do that and don't consider that to be promoting or condoning inequality when it obviously is. My DSIS is a HT in a deprived area, like the one where we grew up. There are no MN parents moving there to get their DCs into catchment or to use their DCs as part of a social equality experiment. Funny that

The parents I know who've gone private have all done so because of societal expectations - because of the social circles they move in.

Yep a good 60% of children at my son’s private school are SEN. The state system needs to get better at supporting these children. It’s not necessarily all bright children and amazing teaching. They just get a bit more support and the small classes make a huge difference.

Yeah that’s wrong with society - all the public sector professionals, low to middle income workers … we’re obviously not working hard enough.

This idea that all private schools are full of really wealthy kids 'looking down' on those who can only just afford it is such a myth. Yes, if you are two income, downsized your house to afford fees type family, you should probably avoid certain schools, but there are plenty of schools (often the more academic ones!) that aren't like that at all. Even if you do go to one of the 'rich people' ones, nobody looks down on you! It's not the 1920s! You just might run into issues like all your kids friends disappear to their holiday homes during the vacations.

Incidentally, mumsneters often give great advice on this.

What I don't understand is - WHY do you care what anyone else thinks??
We can afford private education - but as we're both WC backgrounds neither of us believes in it. I have had colleagues, and friends, genuinely puzzled as to why our kids are in state school.
I could care less that some think we're not doing the 'best' for our children. I think we are.

Not always money well spent. I know two people who were privately educated who are complete wasters. The drug culture at private schools is often way way worse so don’t think they will necessarily have “nice” friends. Likewise those who haven’t having amazing careers. It’s a big gamble if it doesn’t pay off.

We were the first people in our families to go to university (on full grants, when they existed), the first to have careers not just jobs, and the first to own our own homes. No-one has ever handed us a penny

Except they did if you were on a full grant. Great that you’ve done well but you benefitted from something which isn’t available to people now.

Plus what others have said about you perpetuating inequalities.

Personally in my experience it’s not the schools that give the most benefit to a child, it’s the parenting. The time you spend with your children, the wide experiences you share with your children, the social/life skills you teach your children. All this costs nothing except time and it’s time well spent. As a country we should put more importance and investment into parenting.

It's your choice wherever you send your kids. I'm interested to see you source for 'most state schools in the UK being inadequate '.
Should kids that go to state school just give up now then?

You're taking it really personally when you shouldn't really waste energy on it

If I see a thread title which I know the context is going to annoy me I don't bother to read it

This.

You made a choice, for all the reasons you've already stated. FWIW, I did the same. Difference is, I don't remotely care what other people think about it.

I am a low to middle income worker and I work hard enough thank you.
But my point is I don't go about complaining of the injustice of it all. I am where I am because its the life I chose.
If I decided to have children I may have made different choices to give them a better life.

Massively agree with this. This is the thing that makes the most difference - too many parents are anti-teacher or just don't really care.

Friend was sent to a 'top' private school. Came out with virtually no qualifications. The whole atmosphere was one of privilege where no kid really cared about working hard because they had enough money to party and were going to fall back on trust funds and jobs in mummy and daddy's companies.
Her dad was furious, and cut her off financially. Their relationship never recovered, she eventually got to Uni, and now he sits on piles of cash while his only kid supports herself in a modest fashion in the NHS.
She seems a darn sight more happy than him, and had turned down his offers of $$ for fees for her kids.

I’m a teacher and wouldn’t judge parents for choosing to go private.

If I had a magic wand, I would ensure that all state schools were properly funded and the curriculum run by experts outside of political control. However, in the absence of this, it is my dearest wish that our DDs will be able to win a scholarship to the independent girls school in our village.

Delatron
If small classes are needed how would the state system provide these? Oh yes more funds for more teachers.

And this proves what exactly?

You mentioned “choosing/choice”. Some people can not make that choice. You’re implying parents who send their children to private schools care more for making “good choices”. I disagree with that.

Yes huge investment is needed in to the state sector.

A private school education can offer smaller classes, possibly more facilities, social mobility and a high expectation of academic excellence. People will certainly buy into that if they can.

Some private schools have an excellent reputation for working with ND children. Some have an excellent reputation for high level results and RG university entrants.

Some private schools don’t cater well for children of lower academic ability and can be wary of that affecting their results. Some hothouse their pupils, resulting in mental unwellness.

We choose what we can, given the circumstances we’re in. I don’t care if people choose to educate their children privately, nor do I care if people choose to educate their children at home, or any other way. What I do care about, is that all children have an opportunity to develop the skills and talents they have in a fair manner. I think we’re somewhat distant from that hope.

I never feel guilty or defensive about my kids having had a private education (state primary though).

The way I see it is even if you closed all private schools the state sector wouldn’t improve much because you’d still get outstanding state schools and crap state schools and teachers will still be over worked, not paid enough and (some) not very well educated themselves (I’m astonished at how many teachers didn’t know things I’d expect them to) and because there will still be wealthy parents putting their kids in schools in the nicer areas because they can afford the houses. I think what needs to happen is for the UK to study countries like Finland and act on those studies. In Finland teaching is considered a high end career that deserves respect and is well paid (at least judging from a documentary I watched). There’s no private education and their system is considered the best in the world.