To be annoyed that private school parents are demonised?

[Imsorryyoufeelthatway]

Starting this threat to vent and as an antidote to the Closing all private schools would benefit state schools thread. In short, I'm a bit fed up with private school parents being bashed for buying a better education for their children, while parents who 'don't believe in private education' and spend a fortune on homes/second homes/rental properties in catchment areas for 'good' state schools then another fortune on tutors seem to get off scot free.

I'm also fed up with private school parents all being lumped in the same category. We're not all selfish, mega-wealthy, Bullingdon Club (or female equivalent, if there was one...) alumni; many of us are ordinary people (I'm a working class lass from a council estate whose parents worked as cleaners and in warehouses) who've worked bloody hard to be able to afford a better start in life for our children than we had. We were the first people in our families to go to university (on full grants, when they existed), the first to have careers not just jobs, and the first to own our own homes. No-one has ever handed us a penny – my DH got the train to university with £4.50 in his pocket and had to get a job straight away to buy food. No bank account, no trust fund, no-one paying his rent. We've managed to achieve social mobility against the odds, yet we're not allowed to celebrate this because we've chosen to invest in our children's future rather than over-priced property in 'good' state school catchment areas.

Yes, we all know that private schools are a major cause of inequality. Parents like us have literally lived and breathed that inequality our whole lives and we'd do anything to prevent our children having to do the same. We think that all children should have access to high quality education in safe, inspirational environments where they can achieve their potential, not just ours. But most state schools in the UK just cannot meet this requirement. We also know that if catchment areas for state schools were mixed-up, and the schools in deprived areas had an influx of children from more affluent areas and vice versa, then this would likely make things more equal over time. But our children are not part of a social experiment. In short, if those of us who had difficult starts in life and went to terrible schools choose to work our arses off so our children don't have to, can't we be given some credit?

So please, the next time you're tempted to lump a private school parents into the same category and give them a bashing, take a moment to consider their reasons and background. Rant over.

I don’t care if you crawled over broken glass and hot coals to get to where you are regarding social mobility. It’s doesn’t make your unethical choices anymore ethical.

Just crack on OP. Why would you need anyone to validate your choice? It is a choice. You made it. You know the reasons people don't like the concept of private school, yet you made the decision. Just own it and stop feeling like a victim

Every time I go to the dentist or opticiens I wonder what people do on low incomes! O didn't realise how bad it was until friends who'd moved from abroad explained what a dental check-up involved where they came from!

Op bogged off then I see 🤔

One of my children went to private school(boarding too) the other chose a good local state comprehensive .

We were lucky enough to have 90% of the fees paid for via husbands work.

both have very good qualifications, albeit better from private.

Without the bursary, I wouldn't of been able to afford the fees.

Be careful there - private schools are feeling the pressure in this area too. Nobody wants to be accused of bullying or discrimination.

TLDR, but who gives a shit?

I want my kids to have the best possible opportunities that I can afford. If that makes someone else upset then they can kiss my pretty ass.

OP, the one thing no one has ever satisfactorily explained to me is why it is gross social injustice to privately educate your DC, but it is not gross social injustice to live in a much bigger house than others, in a leafy area and a good catchment, to give them tutors and tennis lessons and skiing holidays. People go very quiet when I ask about that inequality on these threads. Maybe because they are happy to allow the inequality they choose/can afford, but nothing beyond it. If it's not that, I don't know what it is because I ask the frothers every time why one is unfair and the other isn't, and none of them has ever answered.

Some of us think both are unfair.

In one of my earlier posts on this thread I explained exactly why I share this poster’s dad’s view and would send my own children private despite thinking they should ideally be abolished. It may seem hypocritical and I suppose it is, but it’s not as black and white as ‘I wish the system was different so I’ll actively disadvantage my children compared to what I could do for them, even though it won’t affect anyone else or make any change to the system.’ No parent ever makes that decision. They just spend money moving into a good catchment area and then say they have acted on principle.

Those who benefit most from schools are those from struggling families who don't know/can't help their children and don't have money to get the train to museums or are too ill to do things. Private schools give the most resources to children whose families either already have the best finances or who are most interested in pushing children's education.

A skiing holiday doesn't have the same implications.

When I said 'nobody' would pay, what I meant was nobody, except the super rich who are paying for the cachet and status, rather than the education. That's a very small number of people.

As an aside I find most people on here refer to private schools as if they’re all Eton. Where I live state schools are shit at secondary level and there are many very normal middle class families who make big sacrifices to go private, grandparents help etc. There’s a thriving trade in second hand uniforms and many would be more likely found camping in Devon than skiing in St Tropez. I cant imagine there are many social connections to be made in the indies round here so anyone assuming going private means a lifetime of networking opportunities is likely to be sorely disappointed!

Like everything in life it’s a sliding scale. From
awful state comps up to grammars full of kids whose parents are topping up with tutors and donating shedloads to the school, next on the rung is your entry level indie with low ish fees, lots of alternative provision and bursaries and full of MC kids, then you’re moving up towards Marlborough and Eton.

There is no hard line in the sand between state and private, where privilege starts and ends. It’s an artificial division in what is a much wider sliding scale of privilege.

Oh but wait for it - private schools are full of anti discrimination talks, equality, privilege, fair trade… Everything that’s got them where they are has to be negated and then they have to allow themselves to feel conscience and faux empathy whilst they select who their kids will be mixing with.

I don’t have a problem with private schools. I can see people want schools with longer hours or flexi boarding etc. That some schools offer things that normal schools can’t.

I think the mistake is people thinking they will always get the best education for their children by paying for it. Having had a teacher friends work in a few they would disagree and weren’t happy how things worked, things like not entering students with predicted low scores in exams so it didn’t ruin their average. Poor help for students who were struggling. They said if you child is bright and hard working then they will really get the best from them, otherwise it can be hit and miss. Like any school it’s not going to be a good fit for everyone.

We have a family member who is sending her child to a private school. It’s causing all sorts of financial issues and she’s pressurising her widowed mother to help etc. she lives near an outstanding primary, she never even went to see it as she assumed private would just be better.

A level playing field for all in education

I also think that private schools and being able to live in nicer areas with better schools are both privileges that huge amounts of parents could never dream of affording.

I moved out of an inner city area, and rented a tiny flat just as my son was about to start school. The bullying in nearby schools was awful. I was a single parent, with a modest wage, hardly any maintenance and no help from outside. Yet I was one of the parents who could move, many could not and their kids will have all gone to those awful schools near me. Full of teachers who I knew, who told me how tired they were, how close to the brink they were with stress.

I do not see what I did as any different from choosing a private school.

Including parental support? As involved educated parents immediately give some kids a head start.

I think some parents need to recognise their privilege.

They want great teachers and schools staff in the schools they pay to send their children to but then clearly look down their nose at such staff as they made the 'wrong choice' to become a teacher/TA.

I don’t care if you crawled over broken glass and hot coals to get to where you are regarding social mobility. It’s doesn’t make your unethical choices anymore ethical.

What is unethical about doing what's best for you child? Plenty of "niceties" of state schools have been mentioned. The bullying, stabbings, the deprivation...

I too despise the unearned privileges of the elites and would like more equality, but private schools aren't exactly to blame. Maybe a cap on fees or a voucher system would be a fairer solution.

Please explain why?! 😂

And interestingly the pedagogic research actually indicates that a good teacher is the single most important factor in a child's success at school (closely followed by involved parents, as several PPs have mentioned).

Everyone talks about smaller classes but (SEN notwithstanding), the data actually shows that a child is better off in a large class with a great teacher than in a small class with a poor teacher.

The moral of the story is that whatever schools our DCs attend, we should all be grateful for, and celebrate, great teachers when we find them (And no I'm not a teacher, nor is anyone in my family before anyone jumps to that assumption).

Yes this!!

My kids went to a large London independent. It wasn’t perfect but no regrets.

From what I have seen, most of the private school kids I know, worked hard, got good grades, went to decent universities (though fewer get into Oxbridge these days) and started good careers. They are lovely people. Unfortunately for critics, there isn’t this mass of pathetic weak and snobby privately-educated kids who need spoon-feeding and cannot understand the ‘real world’. Most have coped just fine.

The pandemic teaching seems to have been of a higher quality than their peers in the state sector overall.

Anyway, it was a huge amount of money. Their school does loads for the community and offers many full bursaries. But to maintain charitable status, not out of the goodness of their heart.

Of course it perpetuates inequality. Though I do think the greatest advantage my kids had, was articulate, engaged and educated parents.

It is interesting that buying private healthcare doesn’t attract the same ire.

Anyway I am secure enough to own my choices and see the pros of the education my kids had. Criticism doesn’t bother me one bit. Friends have also reported good experiences form their state and grammar schools. It’s not a black and white situation.

But many kids enjoy their private education and have the qualifications, skills and personal qualities to do well in the ‘real world’. That’s the truth.