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Original poster

To be annoyed that private school parents are demonised?

665 replies

Imsorryyoufeelthatway · 12/04/2023 11:09

Starting this threat to vent and as an antidote to the Closing all private schools would benefit state schools thread. In short, I'm a bit fed up with private school parents being bashed for buying a better education for their children, while parents who 'don't believe in private education' and spend a fortune on homes/second homes/rental properties in catchment areas for 'good' state schools then another fortune on tutors seem to get off scot free.

I'm also fed up with private school parents all being lumped in the same category. We're not all selfish, mega-wealthy, Bullingdon Club (or female equivalent, if there was one...) alumni; many of us are ordinary people (I'm a working class lass from a council estate whose parents worked as cleaners and in warehouses) who've worked bloody hard to be able to afford a better start in life for our children than we had. We were the first people in our families to go to university (on full grants, when they existed), the first to have careers not just jobs, and the first to own our own homes. No-one has ever handed us a penny – my DH got the train to university with £4.50 in his pocket and had to get a job straight away to buy food. No bank account, no trust fund, no-one paying his rent. We've managed to achieve social mobility against the odds, yet we're not allowed to celebrate this because we've chosen to invest in our children's future rather than over-priced property in 'good' state school catchment areas.

Yes, we all know that private schools are a major cause of inequality. Parents like us have literally lived and breathed that inequality our whole lives and we'd do anything to prevent our children having to do the same. We think that all children should have access to high quality education in safe, inspirational environments where they can achieve their potential, not just ours. But most state schools in the UK just cannot meet this requirement. We also know that if catchment areas for state schools were mixed-up, and the schools in deprived areas had an influx of children from more affluent areas and vice versa, then this would likely make things more equal over time. But our children are not part of a social experiment. In short, if those of us who had difficult starts in life and went to terrible schools choose to work our arses off so our children don't have to, can't we be given some credit?

So please, the next time you're tempted to lump a private school parents into the same category and give them a bashing, take a moment to consider their reasons and background. Rant over.

OP posts:
justteanbiscuits · 12/04/2023 16:02

My only issue is private schools being able to register as charities when they are NOT charities (yes. Some, very few, private schools are charity schools. That's fine, but the vast vast majority are high cost schools).

Q2C4 · 12/04/2023 16:07

Kaibashira · 12/04/2023 11:32

I understand you feel aggrieved at the characterisation of people who send their kids to private school, but this all smacks of "well Lord Sugar is a billionaire and he started off as a market stall trader".
Exceptions tend to prove rules. Most children going to private school have parents who were born into wealth. Private school perpetuates inequality. They also don't get better educational outcomes. It's the soft power of private schools that people pay for.
And children are always part of social experiments - no-one tested the impact of the internet / hyper-connectivicity on adults before unleashing it on a generation of children.

It's not all about better educational attainment outcomes - it can also be about a more rounded education promoting confidence (eg the ability to speak confidently in public) in pupils.

Hobbi · 12/04/2023 16:11

RJ57 · 12/04/2023 11:46

I think getting rid of private schools would be a negative for the UK. They are believed (rightly or wrongly) to be excellent and they attract people from around the world. That's good for the UK and our standing in it. Getting rid of them would also dump a load of kids onto a schooling system that already can't cope with it's numbers. Finally, the rich who can afford it would just go back to doing what they used to do which is have tutors. There will always be them and us.

As a PP said, the current schools do give the opportunity for people through bursaries and scholarships and they also allow those who can afford it to try to invest in their children. I know the schools get benefits from the bursary scheme (charitable status and they up their average grades as they invite the kids who are doing well elsewhere), but so do the kids.

I'm one of those parents who is struggling with the cost of living crisis, but thanks to a bursary I've got my kids in a private school which they love and which is having a great beneficial impact on them. We're aware of some of their friends who are struggling with the mainstream educational system. Life is hard for me as a consequence of this decision. I make a good wage, but don't see much of it at all, but I do have happy kids. The class sizes are small, the teachers are good and so are the facilities. The extra curricular activities are great too. I do not however think that my kids are necessarily going to get higher grades because of the school, but I think they will enjoy getting those grades more and have better mental health.

There are negatives. Some of the kids there are disinterested wasters who are only there as their rich (and often disinterested) parents sent them there. Some of them are bullies, but then bullies are everywhere sadly. Its also reducing what we as a family can afford on other things such as holidays (which are not happening). I realise that the charitable status the schools have is contentious. However, if you stop it and apply VAT to these schools then many will close and many more parents will be unable to afford the increased fees. If that happens then there will be tens of thousands of children now needing to be taught in state schools at the tax payers expense.

So, stopping charitable status will potentially reduce the UK's international presence through the closure of schools, reduce social mobility (Keir Starmer's parents got him into private school through a bursary) and potentially cost more than it would save. It would also put increased pressure on state schools, especially the ones that are doing well academically as people with the means will move into their catchment areas, to the detriment of those who can't afford to do so.

Why did you feel the need to tell a lie about Keir Starmer in this post?

twelly · 12/04/2023 16:13

I have changed my views on this topic and I am now planning to send my children to a private school due to the sex/gender confusion that state schools seem to be in. I feel and have in discussion with people found that as the private schools are more traditional and you are paying they are less likely to be influences by this agenda.

Creativityisold · 12/04/2023 16:16

Private school parents more likely to vote Tory. Tories have taken away teaching assistants, healthy school meals, school playing fields, music lessons school trips and reduced benefits to the level that families are struggling to feed their children and buy food and clothing.

Just because you were lucky enough to make money doesn't mean it's ethical to destroy the life opportunities of everyone else

Jonei · 12/04/2023 16:18

I would check that out very carefully before proceeding. Plenty of private schools have swallowed the kool aid when it comes to gender politics. As have a number of grammar schools. The one thing I am very pleased about my child's state school, is that the pupils generally take no shit and call a spade a spade. As it were.

HRTQueen · 12/04/2023 16:19

No we are not demonised 🙄

our children have better chances in life simply becuase the funds are there no other reason

get over yourself and ffs appreciate how privileged position your child is in and more importantly make sure they are aware of this

sadly appreciation of being privileged is not recognised or spoken about hence many private school children are entitled and lack awareness

Hobbi · 12/04/2023 16:20

SmartHome · 12/04/2023 12:11

By people who know nothing about them and have no experience of them, of course.

TBH I also find it such transparent political lobbying that I also just roll my eyes and laugh. And by a party whose leader hided the fact that he went to a private school from year 8 to year 13, no less. Hard to take seriously.

Nice, deliberate misrepresentation of what happened with Starmer. And what does 'hided' mean? Is it a private school word?

Hobbi · 12/04/2023 16:25

kitsuneghost · 12/04/2023 12:34

Well said OP and well done on doing well for yourself and doing the best by your kids. Too many people just want to blame others for their circumstances rather than do something about it themselves

What a ridiculous thing to say. All low earners should just change their circumstances?

Dobby123456 · 12/04/2023 16:27

We're going to have this same problem with health care soon. All the resentment will be diverted onto the 'selfish' people using private, instead of asking what went wrong with the NHS.

kitsuneghost · 12/04/2023 16:28

Hobbi · 12/04/2023 16:25

What a ridiculous thing to say. All low earners should just change their circumstances?

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No just accept their circumstances and not whinge about other people's circumstances or being so hard done to.

Hobbi · 12/04/2023 16:32

@kitsuneghost

"No just accept their circumstances and not whinge about other people's circumstances or being so hard done to."

Make up your mind . Do those of us on ordinary incomes accept our lot or simply change our circumstances by mystical hard work that we're all somehow afraid of? Which is it?

nighthawk99 · 12/04/2023 16:33

TheChoiceIsYours · 12/04/2023 15:27

Isn’t that a parent’s job? To put their child first, over and above any other person? Not really seeing the issue here. This poster’s parent sending her to a shit school would have been awful for her and made not a jot of difference to those ‘other children’.

People on here seem convinced that if a parent sacrifices their child’s best interests for the greater good there will be some kind of immediate impact or change for other people. That’s not the case, it will make no difference at all - the system will still be the system, but their own child will be worse off. What kind of shit parent would make that choice when they have other options?! And I don’t include the ‘house movers’, they’re the same as the private school parents whatever they would like to think!

As a PP put it, don’t hate the player hate the game!

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Did you mot read the first sentence? ie 'my dad was .....anti private education'

But only for other people's kids it seems!

tennesseewhiskey1 · 12/04/2023 16:35

Hard hat on OP - you’re brave, this is mumsnet - most hate anything to do with private school! Fwiw - I agree with you btw - but I don’t feel the need to explain to anyone why I send my kids to private school - it’s my choice and my money - I know a shit ton of parents who send their state school kids to private tuition - some cost £75 per hour (we’re talking year 3 here) - do I feel the need to belittle them? No. Their money 🤷🏻‍♀️

SpringHexagon · 12/04/2023 16:36

Hear hear op. Exactly the same scenario as you, and I feel like the Mumsnet naysayers feel that all our children should have rubbish education because not everyone can afford better.
Our local high school is very low achieving, and the other schools in the county are not much better (including the school I attended), why on god's earth would I send my child to these schools if I have the choice not to?
I too have been a bit frustrated with the bashing going on.

Ladybowes · 12/04/2023 16:36

Dobby123456 · 12/04/2023 16:27

We're going to have this same problem with health care soon. All the resentment will be diverted onto the 'selfish' people using private, instead of asking what went wrong with the NHS.

Absolutely!! Vast amounts of the NHS have been privatised by the back door anyway. Look at the mess that is NHS dentistry.

Notellinganyone · 12/04/2023 16:42

MrsSchrute · 12/04/2023 11:36

Exactly this. The majority of state schools are better in many ways than private.

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Sadly I’m not convinced this is true. When I started teaching 27 years ago it probably was. Pre SATS, Ofsted, MATs and restrictive curriculum requirements the most lively and innovative teaching was often found in state schools and Independent schools were lagging behind. However the tables have now turned. Independent schools can be much more flexible with their curriculum, older teachers are not harried out of the profession because they are expensive and won’t kowtow to nonsense initiatives. I’m an English teacher and there’s no way I’d teach in a state school now, despite being state school educated myself and having started my career in the state sector. I’d be condemned to a lifetime of PowerPoint teaching and An Inspector Calls ad nauseam.

eurouk · 12/04/2023 16:42

So many threads about private schools lately. Very odd.

It's obviously a regional issue. Some areas have access to better state schools than others. Some areas have faith schools. Some areas have grammars.

People in different areas make choices according to the options available to them. In another area, they might have made different choices.

Eg. Someone in London might decide it's worth paying for an independent school to avoid stabbings in their local state. But if they lived out in a posh part of Surrey, they might have been happy to use the local state. Just like if they lived out in Kent or Bucks, their kids might have gone to a grammar.

It's a regional issue people! And not all private schools are equal - far from it. Some are excellent. Some are dire. Just like state schools.

Ladybowes · 12/04/2023 16:44

SpringHexagon · 12/04/2023 16:36

Hear hear op. Exactly the same scenario as you, and I feel like the Mumsnet naysayers feel that all our children should have rubbish education because not everyone can afford better.
Our local high school is very low achieving, and the other schools in the county are not much better (including the school I attended), why on god's earth would I send my child to these schools if I have the choice not to?
I too have been a bit frustrated with the bashing going on.

I don’t think anyone wants your children to have a worse education. I want a better education for everyone including your children. I actually think if the standards were raised to the same as private schools no would care.. but that hasn’t happened the difference have increased from my experience. The last 10 years state education has been absolutely decimated … the teachers going on strike, SEND in a mess, teacher recruitment and retention issues.. school buildings not being up to the job in many places I could go on.

Endlesssummer2022 · 12/04/2023 16:45

Ladybowes · 12/04/2023 16:36

Absolutely!! Vast amounts of the NHS have been privatised by the back door anyway. Look at the mess that is NHS dentistry.

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This is also what I’ve said on other threads. It will be a slippery slope of people demanding things they don’t have being taken away from others.

What’s Starmer’s next big focus group generated culture war idea? ‘Not everyone can afford a hybrid or electric car so they should be banned or the price put up so only the super rich can have them?

Endlesssummer2022 · 12/04/2023 16:48

It’s the entire broken education system that needs to be fixed as well as the NHS.

As others have said, don’t hate the player, hate the game. Different groups of service users being pitted against each other will not fix the service. What are Labours plans to improve state education?

saraclara · 12/04/2023 16:48

HRTQueen · 12/04/2023 16:19

No we are not demonised 🙄

our children have better chances in life simply becuase the funds are there no other reason

get over yourself and ffs appreciate how privileged position your child is in and more importantly make sure they are aware of this

sadly appreciation of being privileged is not recognised or spoken about hence many private school children are entitled and lack awareness

What a refreshing post. Thank you. I for one, really appreciate it

ChunkaMunkaBoomBoom · 12/04/2023 16:51

Honestly don't see why people who use private schools feel like anyone else needs to validate their choices.

Ladybowes · 12/04/2023 16:51

Endlesssummer2022 · 12/04/2023 16:45

This is also what I’ve said on other threads. It will be a slippery slope of people demanding things they don’t have being taken away from others.

What’s Starmer’s next big focus group generated culture war idea? ‘Not everyone can afford a hybrid or electric car so they should be banned or the price put up so only the super rich can have them?

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I see what you’re saying but the inequality is so great that it’s not acceptable. Look through history and you see revolutions happen when the peasants (I’m one of those said peasants!) are treated too badly!

People aren’t stupid they can see how unfair the system is and they rightly want more fairness.

Spendonsend · 12/04/2023 16:55

I think private schools reflect an inequality that is already there, rather than causing it. Although the jury is a little out in those really elite schools, but i am suspicious they would still exist somehow. Whether its abroad or as elite summer clubs.

I believe in a more equal society but think there are better ways to create that than stopping private schools around paying low paid work fairly, better housing, more apprentishios, investing in the country and transport.

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