To be annoyed that private school parents are demonised?

[Imsorryyoufeelthatway]

Starting this threat to vent and as an antidote to the Closing all private schools would benefit state schools thread. In short, I'm a bit fed up with private school parents being bashed for buying a better education for their children, while parents who 'don't believe in private education' and spend a fortune on homes/second homes/rental properties in catchment areas for 'good' state schools then another fortune on tutors seem to get off scot free.

I'm also fed up with private school parents all being lumped in the same category. We're not all selfish, mega-wealthy, Bullingdon Club (or female equivalent, if there was one...) alumni; many of us are ordinary people (I'm a working class lass from a council estate whose parents worked as cleaners and in warehouses) who've worked bloody hard to be able to afford a better start in life for our children than we had. We were the first people in our families to go to university (on full grants, when they existed), the first to have careers not just jobs, and the first to own our own homes. No-one has ever handed us a penny – my DH got the train to university with £4.50 in his pocket and had to get a job straight away to buy food. No bank account, no trust fund, no-one paying his rent. We've managed to achieve social mobility against the odds, yet we're not allowed to celebrate this because we've chosen to invest in our children's future rather than over-priced property in 'good' state school catchment areas.

Yes, we all know that private schools are a major cause of inequality. Parents like us have literally lived and breathed that inequality our whole lives and we'd do anything to prevent our children having to do the same. We think that all children should have access to high quality education in safe, inspirational environments where they can achieve their potential, not just ours. But most state schools in the UK just cannot meet this requirement. We also know that if catchment areas for state schools were mixed-up, and the schools in deprived areas had an influx of children from more affluent areas and vice versa, then this would likely make things more equal over time. But our children are not part of a social experiment. In short, if those of us who had difficult starts in life and went to terrible schools choose to work our arses off so our children don't have to, can't we be given some credit?

So please, the next time you're tempted to lump a private school parents into the same category and give them a bashing, take a moment to consider their reasons and background. Rant over.

My mum went to Reigate County school for girls, the girls grammar school. She got in by passing her 11+ also. When an adult she went on to work as personal assistant to a vip in London who, years later, told her that what first drew his eye to her cv was the school she attended. And meeting her cemented his impression. My aunt didn´t pass and went to the local socondary, they even speak differently. So, yes, the school she attended landed her more opportunities, but she stepped up and got them.

@Jonei

This argument is often used against low income parents. Inverting it against people on higher incomes just reinforces the idea that the state shouldn't provide a safety net.

No good will come from the state refusing to provide education to a child because of their parent's income.

Surely there are better ways of dealing with university applications than this?

If people can afford private education, then why on earth wouldn't they make provision by getting insurance to make sure they can continue that?
Are so many parents suddenly falling on hard times when their children reach 6th form?
What better ways would there be to deal with the applications that don't end up disadvantaging state school kids, because of the sharp elbowed fee paying parents?

@Jonei

Maybe they could just add a question to the application form about whether they have attended a fee paying school and ask for school name.

Sounds simpler to me than completely tearing up the social contract on free education provision.

Politically my dad was left wing and anti private education but luckily he didn’t put that before my happiness and well-being.
no just before everybody else's kids' happiness and well-being!

Yeah.
Along with full evidence of schools attended.
That could work too.
😆

I'm a bit fed up with private school parents being bashed for buying a better education for their children,

Just popping in to say that I've taught in both state and private. When I first started in private I was blown away by the beautiful buildings, equipment, swimming pool, sports opportunities, art materials, IPADs etc. "Yes! I would pay for my child to come here!" I thought.

6months down the line and the shine had well and truly come off the curriculum. No challenge, no real monitoring. Nothing linked up. Many teachers out of date with best practice because they had been in the soft private bubble too long. Most kids coped well because they came from affluent families with high expectations etc. Also we could fiddle the exam results a bit in the lower years. Any child with SEND was left behind in big big way though.

I left and went back to state school, knowing that I would not actually pay £12k a year for my child to attend after all.

In answer to your actual thread though, I hate the inequality it breeds but I think most parents would pay if they felt it was the best thing for their child.

@Namechangenoidea are you a Communist? You sound like one

Not for emigration, but when a job role requires a lot of moving around between different countries.

Isn’t that a parent’s job? To put their child first, over and above any other person? Not really seeing the issue here. This poster’s parent sending her to a shit school would have been awful for her and made not a jot of difference to those ‘other children’.

People on here seem convinced that if a parent sacrifices their child’s best interests for the greater good there will be some kind of immediate impact or change for other people. That’s not the case, it will make no difference at all - the system will still be the system, but their own child will be worse off. What kind of shit parent would make that choice when they have other options?! And I don’t include the ‘house movers’, they’re the same as the private school parents whatever they would like to think!

As a PP put it, don’t hate the player hate the game!

No He was a hypocrite. He didnt believe in private ed for other people's offspring - just his own.

🧐

so what if she is??

There seems to be some kind of assumption on MN that the choice is between private schools or moving at great expense near to an outstanding state school/ paying for tutors etc. I guess this reflects the demographic of MN but most people (including myself) don't do either of these things. These decisions aren't the reality for most people no matter how hard they work, or how many holidays they don't have.

There's also a lot of mad assumptions on MN about criticism being about jealousy or demonisation, rather than people disagreeing with other's choices, which is perfectly acceptable.

I’m with you OP. My eldest DC is in private school because of awful bullying in his state school. Tried for over a year to resolve it unsuccessfully and wasn’t able to get him in any other half decent school, so private it was. My youngest DC will be in state school and likely won’t experience the same issues as eldest, but I’d love to send them there too now I’ve seen the difference! Just won’t be able to afford both.

Frankly, I care more about my own children’s wellbeing and opportunities than wider issues. Sue me 🤷‍♀️

@Ladybowes well I do t w

Is a career not a job? Just given a different name to make yourself feel more important.

@Ladybowes apologies my phone malfunctioned.

She can be what she wants. I am a capitalist and I do not agree with her, that's all. I'd like to spend my money how I see fit, rather than being told how to by the State.

Agree a common phrase I see (not today as it happens) when people talk about inequality in terms of wealth is people accusing those who want a fairer system of politics of envy.. and you just haven’t worked hard enough so you’re jealous etc..

I don’t think anyone disputes doing what you would do best for children. I’m socialist and a teacher so will always strive to diminish the inequality gap in education. I don’t demonise parents who have chosen the private pathway. What riles me is when parents imply that others would do the same for the children if they hadn’t made the “wrong choices” without acknowledging for some, there are no choices.

Fair enough.

That’s a heavy burden for one man to shoulder 😯

What irks me is the description of private schools & the assumed associated networks that you so often see described on here. Not all private schools play lacrosse / offer guaranteed Oxbridge places and jobs in the City. My private school was tiny and not super selective - it specialised in maximising potential and accommodating those who would / could not have coped in mainstream schools. We did not play lacrosse or go cross country skiing and thankfully I do not know Boris Johnson or Jacob Rees Mogg.

That's quite the assertion- the most intelligent children in state schools would most likely remain the most intelligent children in the school. The children in my 16 year old's top math set are going to be just as intelligent as private school children in maths top sets, if not more so as they haven't had the advantages of wealth to get them in to that position. My nephew goes to a top Independent school but is not as good at Maths as DS and is never going to be. My DD's friend has been at a local private school for year 7 and we (DH and I) are struggling to understand what all the money is spent on. Of course, the facilities are better but I'm unsure about the education. She recently stayed at ours for a sleepover we played a board game and she was struggling with names of European cities/countries, writers' names, basic facts about Religion and Politics and History. I really don't think paying for an education has much to do with intelligence.

no just before everybody else's kids' happiness and well-being!

How was he supposed to make everybody else's kids happy?

How would it help state school pupils if we added all the pupils currently in the private school system into the state school system? There just simply aren't sufficient resources (and I'm not naive enough to believe that any government would provide them).