To be annoyed that private school parents are demonised?

[Imsorryyoufeelthatway]

Starting this threat to vent and as an antidote to the Closing all private schools would benefit state schools thread. In short, I'm a bit fed up with private school parents being bashed for buying a better education for their children, while parents who 'don't believe in private education' and spend a fortune on homes/second homes/rental properties in catchment areas for 'good' state schools then another fortune on tutors seem to get off scot free.

I'm also fed up with private school parents all being lumped in the same category. We're not all selfish, mega-wealthy, Bullingdon Club (or female equivalent, if there was one...) alumni; many of us are ordinary people (I'm a working class lass from a council estate whose parents worked as cleaners and in warehouses) who've worked bloody hard to be able to afford a better start in life for our children than we had. We were the first people in our families to go to university (on full grants, when they existed), the first to have careers not just jobs, and the first to own our own homes. No-one has ever handed us a penny – my DH got the train to university with £4.50 in his pocket and had to get a job straight away to buy food. No bank account, no trust fund, no-one paying his rent. We've managed to achieve social mobility against the odds, yet we're not allowed to celebrate this because we've chosen to invest in our children's future rather than over-priced property in 'good' state school catchment areas.

Yes, we all know that private schools are a major cause of inequality. Parents like us have literally lived and breathed that inequality our whole lives and we'd do anything to prevent our children having to do the same. We think that all children should have access to high quality education in safe, inspirational environments where they can achieve their potential, not just ours. But most state schools in the UK just cannot meet this requirement. We also know that if catchment areas for state schools were mixed-up, and the schools in deprived areas had an influx of children from more affluent areas and vice versa, then this would likely make things more equal over time. But our children are not part of a social experiment. In short, if those of us who had difficult starts in life and went to terrible schools choose to work our arses off so our children don't have to, can't we be given some credit?

So please, the next time you're tempted to lump a private school parents into the same category and give them a bashing, take a moment to consider their reasons and background. Rant over.

I don't think private school parents are demonised. Private school parents who don't recognise their privilege are.

Not all private schools are the same. And even within a private school there is a huge range of family backgrounds and wealth, including kids on scholarships and burseries who would not get the same opportunity in a state school.
Closing private schools will not help the state system, it will just mean the 'private school' kids will all end up in the top sets pushing state school kids down to the middle sets.
The only way to save the state school system and reduce inequality is for the government to invest more money into education, families and teachers. Let's not blame it on the private schools or parents.

The problem as I see it is that mixing everything together doesn't seem to have the effect of raising the standard overall, the opposite in fact.

In class of 30 kids two or three difficult kids end up taking over and disproportionately having a negative effect on all the other children.

With the above in mind those that can afford it opt for an environment where this doesn't happen or happens less I think.

What if financial circumstances change and they can no longer afford the fees?

It is not a question of whether you should or shouldn't have DONE something different. It's the fact that, the OP is annoyed that private schools are demonised, apparently, and you agree that this is annoying. You fully agree. Whereas, in fact, it is shameful that there is not an alternative, and the fact that the alternative is provided by private schools is terrible, because it is not open to all. The OP makes a general point, you say "this is true because my children etc". What I don't understand is how you care so little about others not to recognise that you are privileged and therefore you agree with the OP. Basically, I don't understand why you agree with the OP when you recognise that your child needed a private school because state schools didn't do the job. Why don't you want better state schools? Or do only your children matter? Or do you just not understand that arguments?

This is mostly likely true but what about all the other children who are left in state schools which are massive and don't cope! I would have done the same with my dd had we had the money - but it has never been an option. I think that is why people are often against private schools.. it be less of a problem if state schools were more like private schools - in terms of resources and size etc.

This.

Surely posters can recognise that being able to prioritise education over holidays/house refurbishments/cars is still a privilege?

I have taught students whose only meal is their FSM at school!

Completely agree about the hypocrisy of people who pay for a good education through high house prices. It's the same principle as going private.

DD is a talented musician. The state school she was attending used to have a good music department, but their funding was cut so they sacked the music teacher and sold all their instruments. The former music department is now a set of ordinary classrooms.

There is a state music college in the next town, but we're out of catchment and we couldn't afford the house prices.
Better off parents buying up property to get their children into their chosen state schools are far more elitist - doubly so because they're ensuring their children live in better areas and they're keeping out the less well off.
Independent schools, on the other hand, with their scholarships and bursaries, are giving opportunities based on talent and ability.

Eh? I just sent my kids to the local schools, here and abroad. Why would private schools be a solution to schooling when emigrating?

I believe that most children who go to private school and do well, would've done just as well in a state schools. I think private schools can actually be quite lazy in that they choose the brightest children, who pick things up easily, enjoy learning and can basically teach themselves. If they struggle academically, private schools are pretty crap at helping them. As others have said, private schools usually offer better sports options and have better contacts for work placemats etc.

I agree with the op 100%.
It's ok to spend your money on houses or holidays or clothes etc but not education, apparently.
Well, life is a competition and I'll do anything to give my kids an advantage. We have to sacrifice other stuff but nobody thinks of that, not of the taxes we pay that go to fund an education system we don't use

This!

OP, I've decided to not care much about what others think and just do what is best for my kids.

We earn a lot and live in a cheap area, so we have a low mortgage but have state secondary schools that don't perform well. DC are currently in good state primaries. The choice I struggle with is not the option to send my kids to private school from our current house, it's the option to move house and deliberately enter into a catchment for secondary schools that perform better. That route, to me, feels more insincere and 'gaming' the system. To top it all off, we have several super selective grammars within a commutable distance, we'd only have to move 3 mins up the road to be within catchment of one, plus two good state secondary schools.

From where I'm standing, state schools (like privates) are already not equal. Whenever I am on MN and read all about the virtues/fairness of state schools, I don't really apply those experiences to my own context. I went to a poor state school, I would want something better for my kid. Good for those who are happy with the school they went to/send their DC to. I'll still do whatever I feel is best for my DC.

Agree with some of this. However, in principle I against a two tiered system for education - just as I am for health care too. Although with education you can argue there are several tiers, grammars, state, private, faith school, different academy chains etc. You wouldn't close private schools if you changed the system - a new more imaginative approach needs looking at. The problem is the government didn't do it properly when they reformed the system in the 1970s and scrapped the Tripartite system.

Yes this is crucial.

And to me this is at the heart of why we are in such a state. So many middle class parents congratulating themselves around the dinner table about how little Theo went to the inner city primary but now has moved to a grammar school area with a paid tutor to get him through the 11+, and now off to a Russel Group University. With absolutely no sense of inequality at all.

Our schools are now so different and kids lives have never been more set from birth. 100 years ago there was more chance of social mobility, as more of those poorer kids could get scholarships or go to grammar. Now, not a chance.

In this very thread there are people who have said parents who are sending kids to private school is feeding to the system of injustice.

@MrsMurphyIWish
The comment about bad choice ( above ) is not referring to you. As in YOU.
I said
‘Not disputing that there may be people who moan about the cost of private education. My belief is that if you’re moaning about it maybe you’ve made the wrong choice.’
You have misunderstood
You weren’t moaning about the cost of private education to you.
I was not referring to YOU as an individual but to all the people who moan about the cost to them.

That's true, lots of parents don't have wriggle room - it isn't a choice of holidays or school, it's neither.

But lots do and choose not to (which is their choice). At my kids school (a small prep) his classmates parents are teachers, gardeners, printers, social worker, estate agents, middle management in the local authority. We have the odd wealthy parent but the vast majority are in standard professional jobs rather than mega money jobs. When DH and I chose to send ours to the school we were both public sector workers, likely to top out at £35 - 40k each a year and no plans to change it. It has changed, but not in a way forseeable to either of us at the time.

One of my best friends (though I'm starting to reduce the contact) harps on about how lucky we are to send our kids private, how much money we must have whilst also listening to my tales of camping holidays and her saying she can't cope with her 2 £10k holidays abroad each year. She spends £20k on holidays, I spend it on schooling (actually I spend less than that) but I don't begrudge my choice and I'm very grateful to have the choice where many don't. DS would have struggled in the 500 pupil state he was allocated, even if it was outstanding.

Best not to make that decision in the first place then unless one is confident they will be able to see it through to the end.

I think it is just human nature people are competitive! Let's set the private education system aside for one second for thoughts process. Are you going to penalise people who have private tutors? Are you going to penalise those people who buy houses closest to the nicest schools? Then are you going to penalise parents who's got free time on the side (because they have generational wealth instead of slaving away every single day) to tutor their own kids? Like at which point does this stop? Just so we can all be blanketed to the same rotten state?

As someone who is currently removing her child from a very well thought of but very large (300 per yr) state school due to a combination of constant bullying (and relatively little action to address it), and DD being neurodivergent but not at either end of the spectrum, i.e. failing or succeeding enough to garner the extra attention she needs to do well, I fully agree that people should not shove all private state kids/parents into the same pigeonhole.

All children should be given the opportunity to reach their full potential - some of whom will need more support than others to do so - and we need to vote in a government (if indeed there is one) that will prioritise education, along with health and social care.

• all private kids/parents

The majority of state schools are good.

Really? Are you basing that on what Ofsted say about a school from a brief snapshot once every umpteen years, based on a highly quesionable and ever-changing set of criteria? Because if so, 'good' doesn't really mean what people would like to think it does. My dc go to a 'good' school. I worked there. It absolutely isn't good. I've also worked in an awful 'outstanding' school. Whereas the genuinely outstanding school I now work in has just been downgraded to 'good'. Ofsted is not fit for purpose.

'I don't think private school parents are demonised. Private school parents who don't recognise their privilege are.'

In a nutshell.