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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Terrible 2s - is this normal?!

130 replies

notanotherdayofthisshit · 12/04/2023 09:03

My DD turns 2 next week. I am honestly pulling my hair out with the tantrums. How normal is this? Here are some examples:

  • trying to dress her is generally a physical struggle - I have to restrain her so I can change a nappy / get her dressed. She just screams.
  • shower / bath time - she used to love these. Now it's just another thing that triggers screaming. Again, undressing her for the bath / shower is what sets off the screaming.
  • taking her away from anything she is doing if it's time to leave - eg. Taking her away from the tv for a bath or or to leave the house etc. not always but often this results in screaming.
  • if I won't give in to her demands for "jelly" for her breakfast

The list goes on...... are these repeated tantrums normal? I have an older child (in their teens) and I honestly do not recall things being this bad.

Please tell me whether my child is normal or not? 😩

OP posts:
notanotherdayofthisshit · 13/04/2023 13:36

Albiboba · 13/04/2023 13:34

I do think you’ve got really low expectations for what an almost 2 year old understands. Things like ‘pick the pink hat or blue hat?’ is a perfectly age appropriate question for them.
Okay if you haven’t been consistent with it then it might take a week or 2 for her to get it but she can absolutely understand and respond to requests like this!

Rather than ‘5 more minutes in the park’ which they can’t get the concept of, they do understand ‘1 more go on the slide’. They might not want only 1 more but they understand it. So you team it with ‘1 more go and then we need to go home and make a snack’. It does help to reason with them. They fight back when they think they have no control.

I do choices - she wants both and cries when it can't be both. Explained that already

OP posts:
notanotherdayofthisshit · 13/04/2023 13:37

I’m sure since you’ve read everything and have a phD in psychology you already know this, but you shouldn’t have “treat” foods.

🙄🙄🙄
Still waiting for an answer as to how many children you have, and what your direct experience of parenting toddlers is?

OP posts:
Morningcoffeeview · 13/04/2023 13:37

Also for getting dressed. Put them in soft clothes for bed and then it’s just a nappy change. My nearly 2 year old has just started resisting getting dressed so I have started to do this like i did for my eldest.

notanotherdayofthisshit · 13/04/2023 13:38

jamsandwich1 · 13/04/2023 13:33

Sounds precisely like my 2yo

It's probably because you're out of control. Well according to @SunnySaturdayMorning it will be.

OP posts:
Nordicrain · 13/04/2023 13:38

The thing about you feeling at the end of your tether (and not showing it) is that it's shit for you. I know you don't want advice, but if you could find a way to reduce the tantrums it would certainly improve your experience of the time you have with your toddler, wouldn't it?

Kids are different, DD was pretty highly maintenance but spoke well early so we could always negotiate a solution. DS struggled lots more with his emotions and communication and that resulted in more tantrums. His personality was also just different. For him we starting the indentifying the feelings early and it really helped, but it took time (now he is 5 and is AMAZING at identifying and telling us how he feels when he is struggling), but also we had to adapt the way we did things to his way of doing them. E.g. he was petrified of water for a long time so we gave him either very very shallow baths with lots of entertainment (a bubble machine in the bathroom works wonders) or cleaned him with a flannel. Forcing him into a bath would have helped noone. One winter he refused to wear trousers at all, only shorts. We dealt with that by giving him longish wool socks and wellies to go with the shorts. None of these things did him any harm at all and it meant we weren't in a daily battle with him. You catch my drift....

notanotherdayofthisshit · 13/04/2023 13:40

@Morningcoffeeview

I do sometimes briefly leave the room but honestly, she does tantrum to an empty room 🙈 wails of "mummyyyyyyyyy!!" And lots of crying because I've left. It's also difficult to do that for any period of time because if I did that every morning I'd be late for work every morning too. So I have to really limit that and just do the tasks at hand as much as possible.

Incidentally, nursery tell me she's (quote): "lovely, strong willed, but lovely". And also that she's normal. So 🤷‍♀️ who knows why I get the brunt of the worst! Maybe it's because she knows I'm her safe place to let it all out? So, so hard in that moment though.

OP posts:
notanotherdayofthisshit · 13/04/2023 13:42

@Nordicrain

It's not necessarily that I don't want advice. I didn't specifically ask for it in my OP. But I'll happily listen to advice that isn't patronising, inventing a narrative about me being "out of control", and accusing me of being the problem. That's my only issue with some of the advice I've had so far.

OP posts:
violetskypurple · 13/04/2023 13:42

Sounds exactly like my DD who is 2 next week apart from she demands hummus for breakfast

notanotherdayofthisshit · 13/04/2023 13:43

Morningcoffeeview · 13/04/2023 13:37

Also for getting dressed. Put them in soft clothes for bed and then it’s just a nappy change. My nearly 2 year old has just started resisting getting dressed so I have started to do this like i did for my eldest.

This is a good idea. Only issue being that she will still not appreciate the morning nappy change 🙈 But at least her clothes are on her ready!

OP posts:
notanotherdayofthisshit · 13/04/2023 13:43

violetskypurple · 13/04/2023 13:42

Sounds exactly like my DD who is 2 next week apart from she demands hummus for breakfast

😂
Better than jelly 🤷‍♀️

OP posts:
Morningcoffeeview · 13/04/2023 13:43

notanotherdayofthisshit · 13/04/2023 13:40

@Morningcoffeeview

I do sometimes briefly leave the room but honestly, she does tantrum to an empty room 🙈 wails of "mummyyyyyyyyy!!" And lots of crying because I've left. It's also difficult to do that for any period of time because if I did that every morning I'd be late for work every morning too. So I have to really limit that and just do the tasks at hand as much as possible.

Incidentally, nursery tell me she's (quote): "lovely, strong willed, but lovely". And also that she's normal. So 🤷‍♀️ who knows why I get the brunt of the worst! Maybe it's because she knows I'm her safe place to let it all out? So, so hard in that moment though.

Nursery tell me that they “don’t even know they have him” about my eldest. I think it’s a case of restraint collapse.

I find wireless headphones and lighthouse family playing really helpful. Block out the whinges and dance in the kitchen 😂😂

Morningcoffeeview · 13/04/2023 13:44

notanotherdayofthisshit · 13/04/2023 13:43

😂
Better than jelly 🤷‍♀️

Yeah I’d allow houmous!

notanotherdayofthisshit · 13/04/2023 13:52

@Morningcoffeeview

😂 I really dislike lighthouse family but I will find an alternative to block it out 😂

OP posts:
marrymeadam · 13/04/2023 13:54

My DD was like this from 18 months ish. She is fiery and determined. I have always said she will rule the world one day as she will not be told she cant do something but we just had to survive raising her first! She is 18 now and I am just about seeing the end of the tantrums!

notanotherdayofthisshit · 13/04/2023 14:00

@marrymeadam "fiery and determined" is the absolute perfect description for my little one! Nursery call it "strong willed". My eldest was quite chilled and laid back by comparison so this is new territory for me 🙈

One of the nursery staff who has looked after my DD since she was 9 months and knows her well, and has 20 years experience as a childminder, told me that girls tend to be more challenging than boys in general at this age? Don't know if that's true but she's certainly looked after a lot of both sexes to make the comparison. She also told me it's all normal, which helps I suppose but then it's still the question of how long until this is over? I really hope the answer to that isn't another 16 years 😭😂

OP posts:
Thatisme · 13/04/2023 14:04

My daughter's tantruns were totally unmanageable at that age too. I was so worried about her, read book after book, spoke to child behaviour specialists etc All I had to do was to stand my grounds, not give in and wait it out. It worked....eventually, but took a good 6 months (prob more) to start seeing some improvements. It's tough, but the good news OP is that it's a normal phase and you're doing great.

Thatisme · 13/04/2023 14:06

Also, at 3 she was much better. There is light at the end of the tunnel. 😊

Kindofcrunchy · 13/04/2023 14:21

Solidarity @notanotherdayofthisshit. Really sorry but we are still going through this at 3y4m. There's a book, "how to talk so that little kids will listen" I think it's called, I bought it because people recommended it but I'm too bloody tired to read it so your guess is as good as mine. I follow a few accounts on Instagram that kind of help, one of them is "transformingtoddlerhood" if you want to have a look. Hope things get better for you.

SunnySaturdayMorning · 13/04/2023 14:24

notanotherdayofthisshit · 13/04/2023 13:35

@SunnySaturdayMorning

My toddler can sense my stress? Ok.... so tell me, oh wise one, how the hell she picks up on "stress" within this scenario (this was my morning today):

6.30- gently waking her, saying her name, soft lights on, "come on sweetheart let's get ready for nursery...". Favourite toy on standby, happily show her toy as she opens her eyes. "Look, who's this?" Smiling at her etc as I start to try and get her undressed.

Her response? "NOOO!!! Mummy no!!" screaming starts instantly. I try to stand her up, she throws herself onto floor. "Come on sweetheart its time to go to nursery now, we can see all your friends?" Try again to dress her. "NO! NO!!" Dramatic cries. Throws herself around. I disengage and begin attempting to dress her anyway I can while arms and legs fly into my face. At one point I was fully hit in the eye.

So according to you, she picked up on my stress which, before that 6.30 incident, was totally non existent? And somehow that tantrum is my fault for being "out of control"?

ConfusedConfusedConfused

I never said her tantrums were directly your fault. I said there are things you can do which lessen tantrums and things you can inadvertently do which increase them.

Stress comes out through tone and body language even if you think you’re hiding it.

SunnySaturdayMorning · 13/04/2023 14:26

notanotherdayofthisshit · 13/04/2023 13:38

It's probably because you're out of control. Well according to @SunnySaturdayMorning it will be.

Again, not even close to what I’ve said.

Tantrums are developmentally normal. How you deal with them increases or decreases them.

Nobody has a perfectly behaved child; toddlers don’t have impulse control.

notanotherdayofthisshit · 13/04/2023 14:27

Kindofcrunchy · 13/04/2023 14:21

Solidarity @notanotherdayofthisshit. Really sorry but we are still going through this at 3y4m. There's a book, "how to talk so that little kids will listen" I think it's called, I bought it because people recommended it but I'm too bloody tired to read it so your guess is as good as mine. I follow a few accounts on Instagram that kind of help, one of them is "transformingtoddlerhood" if you want to have a look. Hope things get better for you.

Sorry you're going through it too.

Yes I do have that book (alongside a couple others) - it's quite good from what I've read so far but even with some of the techniques I'm still having epic tantrums to deal with. 😭

I will have a look at the Instagram too, thank you.

OP posts:
jamsandwich1 · 13/04/2023 14:46

@notanotherdayofthisshit try and take no notice. I understand completely the stress of trying to get everyone out the house and to various drop offs before you can get to work meanwhile the 2yo is screaming because she wants to put her boots on herself and is refusing to wear a coat or go in the buggy. I think there’s actually something pathological if you’re not stressed by that.

herewegoroundthebastardbush · 13/04/2023 15:10

HI OP, it is so very difficult - especially if you've had a first kid who was more reasonable, so it feel like this is something 'going wrong' when it is actually just a variation of normal!

Would second the recommendation re "How to Talk so Little Kids Will Listen", It's got so many really useful ideas in it (turning tantrum-points into games is one which almost always works on my two girls). The really good thing about the book is its acknowledgment that no technique will work every time, or for every child. It's very much a 'try this, if that doesn't work, then this, if nothing works, then do this (if you have time) or this (if you have no time)"... it also provides 'scripts', which I find very helpful when I know none of the words that are naturally going t come out of my own mouth in the face of my stress from their behaviour are going to be kind, nurturing or productive. I turn to the scripts and fake it until we (somehow!) make it.

The thing is, it doesn't make things 'easier' as such, it just means the work is elsewhere (so summoning up the enthusiasm to be "The Sock Monster" who wants to eat their feet at 6.30AM vs the strength to wrestle them screaming to the ground and pull their socks on at 6.30AM). So if you're looking for 'easier' in the sense of 'less work' I think it's unrealistic - toddlers are knackering, by their very nature.

I often find, after a bad day of tears and tantrums (all round!), I have to go and re-read the book and reabsorb the strategies, because it takes work to maintain them and I'll realise that the reason we've had a bad day is because I've fallen back into old habits of placating, bribing, throwing my hands up in self-pity at how hard they are making things, or getting shouty.

I know SunnySaturdayMorning has pissed you off, and her manner is incredibly annoying - but it is true there are ways we can pre-empt or respond to tantrums that make them better or worse (absolutely there's no preventing tantrums at all, and someone would have to be stupid to think there was) - toddlers tantrum, because their lives are confusing and they are often powerless and this is infuriating. Adults tantrum, we just call it 'reaching the end of our tether' or 'losing our shit' or 'having enough' and verbalise around it. But the core emotions "This is really hard/not what I want, no-one is listening to me, no-one is helping me, it's NOT FAIR" are exactly the same.

And the speaking empathy thing SSM talks about - "It's so frustrating when we can't have what we want/I know you're so upset you can't have that now/I hate stopping when I'm having fun too" - although as she grows up and gets more comprehension this will be a good habit to be in for validating her emotions, at this stage it's as much for you as for her - it's to remind you that she isn't doing it to infuriate you, to hurt you, or to make you late, she's not being manipulative or unkind, she's really feeling very upset for reasons you can fully empathise with at the core.

No-one likes to be rushed into getting ready in the morning. No-one likes not to be able to choose what to eat. No-one likes it when they've made a mistake that can't be fixed. It's just she has no appreciation of what is a big problem or a little problem; all her problems are little to you, because she's little. But they're the only problems she's got, so they feel very big!

By SAYING those empathetic things, it will remind you how much you love her (even when she's being a nightmare) and that will make it easier to be calm.

The only other thing I'll say is - it sounds like your morning and evening schedule is very very tight, so you're probably rushing - this isn't your fault, it's the life we lead now. But the fact she is almost always being woken by you rather than waking on her own, the fact that she has to be woken up early so you need to get her to bed quite early to make sure she gets enough sleep, the fact you get very little down time with her on nursery days - these will all be ramping up the stress and triggering the tantrums as you just have to get her through a list of tasks - up, nappy, dressed, breakfast - none of which she sees the urgency of so will be finding that stressful and annoying.

Is there ANYWHERE in the schedule you could build in some connection time? Like maybe go into her 15/20 mins earlier so you can snuggle and chat a bit before getting her moving? Or possibly co-sleeping part of the night (you say she wakes a lot anyway so this may actually be useful on multiple fronts as less to-and-fro for you in the night)? Basically a hectic schedule with limited connection time will set you up to be at odds from the getgo. I imagine at weekends or days off things tend to be more chilled.

I really don't intend any of this to be patronising (you've raised a child to near adulthood successfully, you know how to suck these eggs!). Just that different kids need different things. My eldest responded really well to verbal reasoning; my youngest is a savage and the only way to get her onside is to make her laugh. My eldest, while very sensitive to her own feelings, is still largely oblivious to others' even at 6 - my youngest, for all she's much wilder and 'naughtier', is actually really sensitive to other people and will often become very upset if she sees she's hurt/upset me. They need totally different handling. You'll find the way with your little girl too. And the things about our toddlers that drive us CRAZY now are usually the characteristics that will be huge strengths in later life.

Solidarity - you'll be OK, she is totally OK, and we all have much the same experiences! <3

notanotherdayofthisshit · 13/04/2023 15:19

@herewegoroundthebastardbush

That's a really helpful, balanced and empathic reply. Thank you so much. I am about to go out but I will re read it later.

Your manner and style of communicating is empathic and understanding, as well as offering advice. You don't make assumptions or invent a narrative. I felt heard, validated and supported; but also some helpful advice in there too.

Thank you.

OP posts:
herewegoroundthebastardbush · 13/04/2023 15:22

<3 You are so welcome!

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