To be outraged about fee-paying schools and social inequality?

[coffeerevelsrule]

I have a ds in Y11 who has been researching potential careers and degrees and it has brought home to me what a horribly unequal society we still have in this country. Apparently 70% of barristers went to public school and there are similar stats for other desirable non-stem roles like journalism and the civil service, as well as medicine. It's a bloody disgrace - what a joke for a supposedly modern society.

And it seems that certain schemes like blind recruitment might also feed into this as although going to Oxbridge might have become slightly more attainable recently thanks to contextual offers and an awareness that those institutions shouldn't be filled with people from certain schools, now blind recruitment means the advantage a state school student may have got from going there is pretty much cancelled out.

To me it seems that ds is most disadvantaged in a way as he wouldn't qualify for schemes aimed at people who are the first in their families to go to uni and we aren't in a deprived area, but he has none of the advantages that would have come from going to an independent school. Everything about us is just average!

He is very bright (predicted all 9s and got that in his mocks) and wants to achieve but it seems that the odds are against people like him having prestigious roles. Obviously when he is quoting these stats at me I'm telling him not to be defeatist and that he has every chance of doing something amazing as long as he keeps working hard, but inside I'm wondering if how true that is.

I've always been against fee-paying schools but him reeling off all these stats at me has just been sickening and yet when Labour make noises about doing something about it there's outrage when in my opinion there should be daily outrage about the current situation.

Can anyone who cares about fairness honestly say I'm BU?

This is so well put. The schools are not creating these careers.

In the case of barristers, I suppose you should be grateful that 70% means that there are nevertheless 30% who are state school educated.
I am sure the figure for solicitors is more evenly balanced and these professions (medicine, law etc) do tend to run in families and if each generation does better than the next, it is maybe more likely that they will be privately educated.
I hear you on the blind recruitment thing as it means someone who has got into Oxbridge from a state school then derives no benefit unless they stand out on whatever selection criteria are used for the job role.
As far as your own son is concerned, he simply needs to believe in himself...the first step is to get good qualifications while at school and then there is everything to play for.

Yes, the class system is horrible. YANBU to notice.

However, as PP have pointed out, your DC is not the worst victim by a long shot.

I've met one barrister from a working class background. He specialised in defending benefit fraud cases (there's an OP on another thread that could do with him!). His advice to me (as a law student) was to pick a niche area and work hard to be the best at it.

DS is from a very working class background and has a Law degree from Oxford. He, and all the others from state schools fought hard for corporate solicitor jobs - they chased the ££ . DS told me he couldn't afford to be a Barrister and live in London on the low wages. I think this is a common problem.

Actually I hear you on the adjusted entry thing to University as well but it simply means he needs to strive to get the best results he can and presumably in most cases a 'deprived area' postcode does mean the school environment is likely to be more challenging. It is not a perfect measure though and some people will get lower offers even though their school is performing well or they may even be using the private sector I suppose depending on the rules.

I think it’s a bit much to complain about blind recruitment. You are just annoyed your Oxford educated child won’t gain advantage when it suits, yet are complaining about kids at a different stage getting what you consider to be an advantage.
Surely it makes no sense to want privilege when it suits ( post Oxford) but not at any other stage.

The world is moving faster than most of us realise. Your child will probably work in a job/field that hasn’t been invented yet, there will be innumerable opportunities for the young and intelligent. My son is in one of those jobs now which didn’t exist when he was at school and at 25 yrs old he’s already trying to foresee the impact of AI on his profession and how he can stay ahead or change in the best direction. Have faith that new opportunities will be available as many traditional roles in medicine and law will become obsolete.

White, male, educated parents and married. He’s half way up the tree.

BUT imagine his future had he gone to a private school.

Yes quite. Perhaps the adjustment should be at one end of the process but not at both.

We live in a society that thrives off keeping the rich rich and the poor poor.

school is a huge part of that, I hate that people get a step up in life using money for education & health - no one deserves that benefit.

But then if money was not an option for any one, then you would have some that want to do x hours, and be excellent at what they do, then some will coast, and do average, ect, so then that would become a means of separating the good quality from average ect

I’ve worked in local journalism for 20 years and very few people I’ve worked with are from private schools. In fact, we really struggle to recruit anyone at all presently because the pay is so shocking (19k starting for a graduate / post grad with a journalism qualification rising to maybe 26k after 10 years) It’s not a desirable profession at all. Even for those working in the national media, unless you’re at the very very top of an org, the pay is still shit. Aside from the shocking pay, the abuse on social media is unreal and mostly unfounded.

Many, many people from local journalism go on to work for the nationals or for broadcasters. They’re crying out for them. Anyone who’s worked in local journalism who's half decent and wants a job on a national can get one these days.

I’m not sure where your stat is from, but it’s wholly incorrect.

@Irritateandunreasonable if he'd gone to private school OP wouldn't be able to afford to support him on an internship still, and he couldn't have got better grades than he's getting

More and more private schools are educating children from abroad so not helping the UK educate its own next generation. Also not always clear that money for fees comes from legitimate sources. Fewer legitimate jobs earn enough.

I think it really is just the very wealthy who can afford to support their children well into their twenties though isn't it? Since divorcing about 7 years ago, I've spent about £3k per year on holidays (though not during the 2 covid years) and manage to save about £1k per year on top of what I have been putting away to see both dc through uni. Even if I had saved every spare penny and had no non-essentials throughout my children's childhoods (God, what a life) I would still never have saved anywhere near enough to support them both (if ds2 wanted it too) through years of work experience etc and everything that goes along with becoming a barrister. It wouldn't come near.

Children shouldn't have fewer opportunities because of decisions made by their parents though and companies shouldn't be expecting people to do unpaid internships. It's just wrong.

Also don't know why people are saying I've only now realised how unfair society is. The stats brought it home to me the impact it causes in this particular field, that's all.

This!

Absolutely 40 years ago there was a tremendous privilege gap between the privately educated and not. However I'd argue these days that a private education doesn't bestow enormous advantage- there are some hurdles which are higher for the privately educated (such as university entrance, especially to oxbridge) and I know that FTSE 100 companies such as the one I work for actively look to recruit diverse, non privately educated employees. (I sit on a panel assessing graduate intake- this isn't just hearsay. In a recent decision about the last 2 places on the scheme we had a privately educated man who'd scored higher but was passed over for a candidate who was the first in his family to attend university as we gave that criteria more weight.)
I'm interested to see how this plays out over the next 20 years- where children actually end up.

Friends recently decided not to send their DD privately for these reasons- but as other posters have pointed out it doesn't mean she's still not very privileged. Education is only one measure.

As others have said- Personally I think home life discrepancies are a much bigger issue than the school. I send my kids private but I’d be on them equally to get their work done whether at state or private. I’d purchase tutoring for them to fill in any gaps regardless. I’d spend as much time with them helping with homework regardless. Their grades will be identical regardless of the school they go to. I’ll ensure they do their absolute best. I’m not a tiger mum by any stretch but my kids are ingrained to work hard because of their home life and the example we set. They know both their parents got straight As at GCSE and A-levels and so want to do the same.

They are privileged children as a result. But, only partially because of their schooling which gives them a much better learning environment for sure and far greater access to sport but it doesn’t give them better teachers.

This is the inequality the government should be looking at not the schooling. Getting rid of private schools or blaming it for inequality of opportunities is not the full picture.

Not sure how that’s relevant to what I said.

perhaps I didn’t articulate my point well.

Erm he’s getting straight 9s, is motivated and supported.

What on earth do you think a private school will do?
He literally couldn’t be doing better.

Private schools often help kids who need more input for example due to SEN. This boy is lucky enough not to have such problems. He is privileged.

Nothing much in life is ‘fair’. You’ve either got to beat them or join them.

I’m not suggesting people not be better off just simply that so many don’t live in poverty so the 1% can retain more money then they’d ever know what to do with.

And it sounds like he’s doing fine as he is. Not sure what a private school would have changed for him.

I find threads like this so depressing.. people telling the OP not to complain because compared to others she and her son have it good. Ridiculous in my opinion she has every right to upset by the unfairness of it all. There should not be a hierarchy of unfairness where you only get to be upset if you are at the bottom.

OP
What does your son want to do? Is he just looking at professions he feels are well paid?