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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think M&S use of Enola Gay in their current advertisement is just crass in the current climate?

195 replies

ArmitageShanked · 07/04/2023 01:23

As above.

OP posts:
Howpo · 07/04/2023 07:20

There are soooooo many things to get angry about, both in the UK and around the World.

But an 80s song used to advertise clothing? NO.

DebussytoaDiscoBeat · 07/04/2023 07:21

This reminds me of when Harvester used the song “Harvest for the World” as the soundtrack to one of their adverts, still annoys me many years later!

NorthStarRising · 07/04/2023 07:21

I went to the Science museum with a class of children a long time ago.
They had a light exhibition, where a child could jump and make a shape, and their shadow would linger on the wall. They thought it was so cool, and all I could think of was Hiroshima. Where the shadows of the vaporised were etched into walls by the blast.
But time and people move on, and associations are forgotten. So now it’s just a pretty tune and the words are forgotten. That’s how it goes IRL.

Calmdown14 · 07/04/2023 07:21

I heard it and cringed too OP.

It seems completely inappropriate lyrics to be prancing around to. I guess you could argue that for many songs but this one caught my attention and not for the right reasons. I guess more people than I thought didn't know what it was about.

I am surprised it got past every level of M&S and no one raised any eyebrows..

Timeforachangeisitnot · 07/04/2023 07:23

Craftycorvid · 07/04/2023 07:17

I suspect some 12-year-old marketing exec’ went ‘ooh, jaunty tune….eighties vibe, our target demographic of mid-life ladies will like that….’ with narry a thought to context. See also the ad’ for cruises (forget which company) using ‘What is Love’ as a catchy tune and featuring a very loved-up couple on their anniversary cruise - I keep supplying the next line of the song in my head ‘baby don’t hurt me no more’ and imagining grim scenarios where she gets him drunk and shoves him overboard 😆

😂 I so agree with this.

Not offended but I did have a 🤔moment when I saw the M&S ad.

marcopront · 07/04/2023 07:24

@ArmitageShanked

If you think it is crass in the current climate then presumably you think it is OK at other times.

When would it be appropriate?

IClaudine · 07/04/2023 07:24

What an odd thread! I wonder if OP has a slight headache this morning.

It is a great song. Maybe next time M&S should use Dancing with Tears in My Eyes, just to wind OP up a bit more.

Trysbutfails · 07/04/2023 07:26

DebussytoaDiscoBeat · 07/04/2023 07:21

This reminds me of when Harvester used the song “Harvest for the World” as the soundtrack to one of their adverts, still annoys me many years later!

What?! Oh that’s much worse! What we’re they thinking?!

I think the synth riff of Enola Gay is iconic enough that it stands apart from the lyrics of the song and has a cultural significance all of its own (soundtrack to a million 80s discos) so M&S not really unreasonable to use it.

Harvest for the World though? C’mon that’s just crass.

ThankmelaterOkay · 07/04/2023 07:27

ArcticSkewer · 07/04/2023 07:06

Dunno. I'd say about the same as posting a thread with crying faces about M+S tunes, but that's probably not true.

There were a lot of changes in the 80s and 90s leading to the end of the Cold War and massive de-nuclearisation programmes where the Soviet Union as was and USA decommissioned huge parts of their nuclear arsenals. Did that all happen because of public pressure? Of course not. Did public pressure, media coverage of protests, the Greenham Women etc play a part? Personally I think yes. What's your take?

The Soviet Union was collapsing/collapsed.

The world then decided that the best thing to do would be to allow the power vacuum to be filled by ultra capitalist thugs. Money would set the people free. Just like it set the West free. Then they installed a mega dickhead to lead them into the 21st Century. He prods and pokes some sovereign nations (read: invades). Europe shrugs. Europe likes cheap gas and oligarchs buying football clubs/half of London’s property market.

But now this is too far. Kyiv was a nice Ryanair destination! How dare you ruin my weekend away/stag party with the lads! This man must be stopped at all costs!

That’s my take. Personally don’t see any point in marching against Nukes. There are far worse things humans do to one another on a daily basis to worry about.

MedievalMadness · 07/04/2023 07:34

This is what Andy McClusky who wrote the lyrics to Enola Gay says about his inspiration,

”Obviously there are two competing arguments. One is that it was a horrific thing to do, to drop an atom bomb that killed up to 250,000 people. The counterargument is that it ended the war and saved millions of Japanese and American lives. I know that Paul Tibbets, the pilot, was absolutely sure that he helped end the war and save lots of lives by killing so many people with one bomb. So it was really an exploration of the moral dilemma and my ambivalence to the morality of doing such a thing.”

Its not simply an anti war song, which many people seem to think it is (and that’s quite understandable if you don’t know what McClusky was aiming to get across in the lyrics.) I’m guessing M&S and Gousto might have been seduced by the catchy tune and what they thought was an anti nuclear war message? I agree it’s inappropriate.

AgrathaChristie · 07/04/2023 07:39

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Do you mean the famous photo from Vietnam? That was napalm.

feathermucker · 07/04/2023 07:39

Considering it's generally perceived as an anti-war song, surely it's more appropriate than not in the current climate?!

Obviously there are two competing arguments. One is that it was a horrific thing to do, to drop an atom bomb that killed up to 250,000 people. The counterargument is that it ended the war and saved millions of Japanese and American lives. I know that Paul Tibbets, the pilot, was absolutely sure that he helped end the war and save lots of lives by killing so many people with one bomb. So it was really an exploration of the moral dilemma and my ambivalence to the morality of doing such a thing.
“I chose to sing about the plane rather than the bombing itself. I was very proud of myself for writing the line, ‘Is mother proud of little boy today,’ because it had multiple meanings. The Enola Gay was Paul Tibbets’ mother’s name. That was a fairly bizarre thing, to name a plane after your mother and then go and drop an atom bomb. Plus, the bomb was codenamed ‘Little Boy’. When people said, ‘How can you write a cheerful-sounding pop song about such an atrocity?’ one of the defences I used was, ‘Is it worse than naming the plane after your mother and dropping the atom bomb?’

As a bit of a side bar, Swap Shop banned the playing of the song at the time because they interpreted it as promoting homosexuality.

AgrathaChristie · 07/04/2023 07:40

But it was still an incredibly shocking photo that showed millions around the world ( pre internet so our ‘viral’ was via TV and newspapers) the cruelty of war.

feathermucker · 07/04/2023 07:41

The middle section of my previous post is what the songwriter had to say about the song.

Limetart · 07/04/2023 07:41

ThankmelaterOkay · 07/04/2023 07:27

The Soviet Union was collapsing/collapsed.

The world then decided that the best thing to do would be to allow the power vacuum to be filled by ultra capitalist thugs. Money would set the people free. Just like it set the West free. Then they installed a mega dickhead to lead them into the 21st Century. He prods and pokes some sovereign nations (read: invades). Europe shrugs. Europe likes cheap gas and oligarchs buying football clubs/half of London’s property market.

But now this is too far. Kyiv was a nice Ryanair destination! How dare you ruin my weekend away/stag party with the lads! This man must be stopped at all costs!

That’s my take. Personally don’t see any point in marching against Nukes. There are far worse things humans do to one another on a daily basis to worry about.

Do you not think that the US if they felt equally threatened by Mexico joining a communist equivalent of NATO would invade?
Of course they would.
Cuba anyone?

feathermucker · 07/04/2023 07:41

AgrathaChristie · 07/04/2023 07:40

But it was still an incredibly shocking photo that showed millions around the world ( pre internet so our ‘viral’ was via TV and newspapers) the cruelty of war.

Which photo are you referring to?

GoingOnlySlightlyCrazy · 07/04/2023 07:45

SunUp · 07/04/2023 06:42

And her mate lady snotty shallot.

I actually immediately thought sock puppet when I read ladyblahblah's post 😂

Well done the posters who were called names by the I'm never offended op and who didn't bite!

DebussytoaDiscoBeat · 07/04/2023 07:47

Trysbutfails · 07/04/2023 07:26

What?! Oh that’s much worse! What we’re they thinking?!

I think the synth riff of Enola Gay is iconic enough that it stands apart from the lyrics of the song and has a cultural significance all of its own (soundtrack to a million 80s discos) so M&S not really unreasonable to use it.

Harvest for the World though? C’mon that’s just crass.

I know right?! I think they must have pulled it from YouTube etc because I couldn’t find it but luckily I found evidence that it wasn’t just a false memory!

Harvester advert

Harvester Advert - Harvest For The World Song? in The AnswerBank: Adverts

https://www.theanswerbank.co.uk/Adverts/Question1549988.html#answer-10927109

AAAAABBBBBCCCCC · 07/04/2023 07:53

The problem op is that you are not as intelligent as you think you are, which is why your default is to insult people who are telling you you're being unreasonable.

You couldn't be bothered to expand your original post because you were 'using a 5 inch phone' but then you have been able to write paragraphs on your '5 inch phone' to insult and name call, which is only making you sound more ridiculous.

Grow up.

Conkersinautumn · 07/04/2023 07:58

Not as crass as using a small piece of information and suggesting that those without this specific knowledge lack intelligence, a completely different skill.

Redebs · 07/04/2023 07:58

It's a weird song.

Crap choice for an advert. But M&S is a crap company.

I was horrified on one Remembrance Sunday (I was photographer) when the kids with xylophones played it. Horrendous

Brefugee · 07/04/2023 08:01

meh. It's a cracking tune and it made a lot of people aware of what the Enola Gay was, what it did and what the consequences of that were.

I grew up in the 60s/70s/80s - i've lived through one cold war and I'll live through another.

feathermucker · 07/04/2023 08:04

Oh yes, the photo that has absolutely nothing to do with anything in this post.

Brefugee · 07/04/2023 08:05

I think of that poor girls who's clothes were all burnt off.

that was napalm in the Vietnam war. As it happened that little girl survived and is living a most excellent life as ambassador to the UN. That Hot War was way way more damaging in so many ways than the cold one.