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Original poster

Why aren't parents held responsible for their children's criminal offences?

168 replies

Nat6999 · 06/04/2023 20:01

news.sky.com/story/boy-12-arrested-on-suspicion-of-murder-after-woman-hit-by-car-in-sheffield-12851331

Last night in the nearby area to me a 60 year old woman was killed by a 12 year old who was trying to steal her car. It is a lovely area where it happened, my brother lives round the corner, as you can imagine it has been a massive shock to residents.

A 12 year old boy has been charged with murder, he ran her over with the car as she tried to stop him taking the car, it happened at 7.30pm & she died at the scene. Why aren't parents held responsible for their son's actions? He was armed with a knife as well. If my son had been involved with crime at that age I would have known, he wasn't allowed out unless I knew where he was & who he was with, is it that some parents just don't care?

OP posts:
MakiSushi · 06/04/2023 20:07

I think it's really unfair to cast aspersions on the parents in these circumstances.

Of course parents have to raise their children to hold strong moral values etc. What happened was absolutely horrific but the child was 12 - in Scotland children are held responsible for criminal activity from the age of 10. Factors will be a play beyond the child's upbringing (peer pressure, substance abuse etc).

Blaming the parents is just shifting blame - not actually solving any problems.

Stitchesremoved22 · 06/04/2023 20:09

Well I guess they will be held accountable by the public. They will be judged and not given a easy ride.
In terms of the law, what would they be charged with? I'm sure social services will be involved if there are any other kids.
I Don't think it's a case of not caring, some parents don't have a choice but to parent like that.. they could be working, have 5 other kids, they could be ill. I'm sure they will suffer in some way if that's what you're hoping for.

BlusteryLake · 06/04/2023 20:11

To me that gets complicated if you are trying to apportion blame to parents. Are you blaming the one who is actually doing some form of parental support as opposed to the one who buggered off when the child was a baby?

BadgerFacedCoo · 06/04/2023 20:12

MakiSushi · 06/04/2023 20:07

I think it's really unfair to cast aspersions on the parents in these circumstances.

Of course parents have to raise their children to hold strong moral values etc. What happened was absolutely horrific but the child was 12 - in Scotland children are held responsible for criminal activity from the age of 10. Factors will be a play beyond the child's upbringing (peer pressure, substance abuse etc).

Blaming the parents is just shifting blame - not actually solving any problems.

Scotland doesn't hold adults accountable for their crimes never mind children.

Some children who go off the rails come from awful families, some come from nice families. Mostly the former.

There's no help for awful families or nice families. No mental health support. No family centres. No social services support.

You raise kids like animals you get animals.

Easterfunbun · 06/04/2023 20:13

Similar thing happened near me not long ago. A 14 year old killed an elderly lady during a burglary. As a mother of a 13 year old son who would NEVER in a million years commit such a heinous crime then you do have to wonder about the parenting or rather the lack of it? It absolutely is a factor. A massive one.

Thatbloomindog · 06/04/2023 20:13

But what if the parents are not together? What if there’s a violent abusive man, the women is told by social services to leave him or her small children will be taken into care. So she does. And he continues to emotionally abuse and control her via the family courts and gets 50/50 access to the children. And then trains them up to be just like him. How is she supposed to counter that? And stop it? And then be responsible for the damage he has caused?

I know of a real life situation like this btw. The family court’s absolutely enable continued abuse by the perpetrator and encourage access to abusive parents at almost any cost.

WheelsUp · 06/04/2023 20:14

In this day and age, if the parents had prevented a determined 12 year old from leaving the house, they would be the ones in trouble.

If the knife belongs to the parents and it's a weapon rather than kitchen/garden blade then then they should be in trouble for purchasing it.

If my son had been involved with crime at that age I would have known, he wasn't allowed out unless I knew where he was & who he was with, is it that some parents just don't care? Do you drive him to school and back? Does he have a phone where he can't fake his location ? I think that there's a lot of crime that happens on the way/after school. Obviously not all kids are criminals but most parents would only find out if footage was posted on social media and the police or school contacted them.

Mortimermay · 06/04/2023 20:16

I think it's unfair to assume that the parents are automatically at fault. It doesn't sound as though we know anything about his circumstances, underlying mental health issues etc etc. It's also unfair to assume that they knew what he was up to and let him away with it. By the sounds of things this happened at a time of day where it may have been perfectly reasonable during the school holidays for a 12 year old to be out with friends. I'm pretty sure he didn't tell them he was going out to steal a car.
I'm not defending him but equally I've worked in a professional capacity with parents who played absolutely no role in the actions of their children. Besides which, I'm not sure how punishing the parents would have any impact? Apart from perhaps to make a family situation worse for any other children and family members.

RudsyFarmer · 06/04/2023 20:19

I don’t think you can hold the parents accountable as this stuff is so complex. A 12 year can be held responsible for their own criminal behaviour and should be punished according to the law.

Honeyroar · 06/04/2023 20:21

You be pretty stupid to simply blame the parents. It’s not always down to the parents. My brother was a real live wire, always in trouble. My parents tried allsorts. People always had an opinion on how he behaved and how they’d handle it if he was theirs. He ended up moving in with some of these know-it-all people when my parents told him to move out at 18. These “experts” lasted about a week. My brother ended up moving back. He didn’t “grow up” until his 50s.

SunshineGeorgie · 06/04/2023 20:21

You are way off mark op

Held accountable HOW exactly?

Dwrcegin · 06/04/2023 20:23

She was his foster carer. Wonder how long he'd been with her. Awful for her family, when she has taken in other people's children.

He is criminally responsible at 12 though.

Greenshake · 06/04/2023 20:25

Why would be the parents be held accountable in this case when the child involved is of an age where he is legally responsible?

JudgeJ · 06/04/2023 20:26

Factors will be a play beyond the child's upbringing (peer pressure, substance abuse

You omit 'poor parenting' from your list of excuses, MN always keen to defend poor parents.

Hellocatshome · 06/04/2023 20:26

Because you can't hold someone else responsible for someone's actions plus he was in foster care so in that situation would you hold the parents or the Foster carer (and victim) responsible?

Easterfunbun · 06/04/2023 20:26

@Honeyroar

Not sure what you wanted an expert to do with a fuck up? Parenting 💯 percent. It’s why they enabled him until he was 50. All children have different perceptions of their parenting.

SleepingStandingUp · 06/04/2023 20:27

Dwrcegin · 06/04/2023 20:23

She was his foster carer. Wonder how long he'd been with her. Awful for her family, when she has taken in other people's children.

He is criminally responsible at 12 though.

The woman he killed was his forster carer?

Busybody2022 · 06/04/2023 20:27

Once a boy hits 11/12 you can't physically keep a child in if they are hellbent on leaving.

If you lock them in or use force to prevent them leaving you end up a criminal yourself.

I do think such kids need assessments for their childhoods though and if there has been things happening that would lead to a child going off the rails so young

Dwrcegin · 06/04/2023 20:29

SleepingStandingUp · 06/04/2023 20:27

The woman he killed was his forster carer?

Show quote history

That's what is being reported.

Tinybrother · 06/04/2023 20:29

What do you have in mind when you say “held responsible”? Do you think they should be charged with something specific?

MrsR87 · 06/04/2023 20:30

Teacher here and it really isn’t as black
and white as you think it is.
You are suggesting that all young people who commit serious crimes come from homes where the parents don’t care/ don’t enforce boundaries/ break the law themselves etc. And whilst this will be the case for some it is so far from the truth for others.
Your argument always reminds me of the parents of two children, both came to our school. The first was a model student; self motivated, polite, helpful etc. They went on to study at an excellent university and are now a doctor. Their sibling was the total opposite; always in trouble, rude, aggressive, lazy etc. The parents would beg the school and other agencies for help. They tried so hard but the second child would frequently run away/ go missing etc. I can promise you that those parents could not have done anything more to try to get their child back on the straight and narrow but I saw in the papers a few years later that they had committed a serious crime and are now in prison. I would never expect those parents to take the blame for the actions of that child, that would be highly unfair.

Avarua2 · 06/04/2023 20:30

Book recommendation: Far from the Tree
https://www.amazon.com/Far-Tree-Parents-Children-Identity/dp/0743236726

Nat6999 · 06/04/2023 20:31

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Avarua2 · 06/04/2023 20:31

One of the chapters in Far from the Tree deals with exactly this, how do parents cope with a criminal child. Marvellous book and eye-opening.

Clementineorsatsuma · 06/04/2023 20:33

Venables and Thompson came from opposite backgrounds. One set of parents were raising their son well, and trying to make sure he had a good life.
He still did what he did.

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