Why aren't parents held responsible for their children's criminal offences?

[Nat6999]

news.sky.com/story/boy-12-arrested-on-suspicion-of-murder-after-woman-hit-by-car-in-sheffield-12851331

Last night in the nearby area to me a 60 year old woman was killed by a 12 year old who was trying to steal her car. It is a lovely area where it happened, my brother lives round the corner, as you can imagine it has been a massive shock to residents.

A 12 year old boy has been charged with murder, he ran her over with the car as she tried to stop him taking the car, it happened at 7.30pm & she died at the scene. Why aren't parents held responsible for their son's actions? He was armed with a knife as well. If my son had been involved with crime at that age I would have known, he wasn't allowed out unless I knew where he was & who he was with, is it that some parents just don't care?

Well, my BPD was likely caused by the fact that my mum was severely mentally ill after I was born and then was in a DV relationship.

I ended up being placed with other family members but still ended up with a personality disorder from those early years.

So who would be blamed and punished for a crime I commited as a teen, if I did?

My mother who was mentally ill and I was removed from and not living with but who certainly contributed to the damage?
My other family members who did their best raising the already damaged child, who I was actually living with?
The man who abused my mother who had already been to prison for abuse and wasn't on the scene anymore?
My absent father?
My mother's absent father?
My mother's abusive foster carers from her childhood?

It's not quite that easy.

woman over is not a “mistake” for god sake. It’s a act of violence he knew was wrong.

But people have been saying if you are parented correctly you know right from wrong. So did he not know it was wrong? Or did he know it was wrong and still choose to do it? I've made many decisions I know are not the right thing to do/not what my parents would want me to do/knew they'd be angry or sad or disappointed in me for. I don't always think it's about not knowing what is moral/right/wrong.

Then he should go to prison for 35 years. I don't care how old he is.

It's wrong to assume that the parents ( or both parents) don't give a shit. Sometimes parents have tried to get help but the help hasn't been provided. It is also easy for a secondary aged child to go completely off the rails.

In my 'nice' village there have been instances of groups of 11/12 year olds throwing things at cars, shouting abuse at people and banging on people's windows during the day time or early evening. Not high level crime but I suspect most of their parents didn't know what they were up.

Because the age of criminal accountability in England is 10.

Sometimes parents have tried to get help but the help hasn't been provided.

I think some people are entirely unaware of how difficult it is to get help for your child now. Even paid for help is nigh on impossible to access quickly and easily

Ah, I was puzzling at BBC story trying to understand the events behind the lady's death. Couldn't work it out. So the OP gave me info I wanted.

YABVU on the thread title question.

You just said his father is narcissistic so in your case, it is indeed a parenting problem.

You're deliberately misreading what I said. "Parenting the fuck out of them" was/is not overbearing, it was attempting to instill basic boundaries and understanding of the world, in the face of constant undermining from somebody who views that child as a possession/toy.

You're right, the father absolutely bears 100% of the responsibility for fucking said child up, by constantly using them as a pawn in a game of control, and never putting said child's needs first. That child is the one suffering, and that makes me extremely angry - with the father.

But, as the child has, until recently, resided with me, those who are outsiders looking in assume fault in the primary home. Not the case. Having three other DC who aren't fucked up, despite receiving the same parenting in this home rather suggests fault lies elswhere.

As for nature/nurture: there is a lot of evidence, both anecdotal and traditional, to suggest that innate nature is extremely hard to'nurture' out of children.

Absolutely. But not a resident parenting problem.

A fathering problem. The OP's suggestion would, as ever, disproportionately lay blame with mothers. That's the issue with it.

You didn’t mention anywhere he wasn’t a resident parent. Infact you said “we” parented him, assuming both parents parented him. You then said his dad was a narcissist.

So if he was in care the LA have taken responsibility for his 'parenting' so how would it work for them to take blame ?

Equally, if for any number of reasons (genetic, in utero exposure, mistreatment or neglect) the child involved has a diminished level of impulse control due to differences in brain development, or a more generalised disability or learning difference, then it is entirely possible that this is an impulsive act (to grab a car and run away from the latest carer or to seek out a previous contact or to play out Grand Theft Auto due to a blurring in understanding of the lines between real life and gaming) gone wrong, not a carefully-planned evil act.

We should leave it to the courts and social services to investigate the full circumstances before leaping to blame .

Yes of course they should.

Too many parents today don't even know what discipline is or are too lazy to administer it.

I'd be embarrassed and feel a total failure if a child of mine had committed a major crime.

Can we start with the wife beater Stanley Johnson? After all his son killed 20,000 people in all but name by his neglect.

My parents were two of the nicest and law abiding people you could meet, yet I was a bit of a problem teen. There’s no way on this planet they could be held responsible for my behaviour.

Embarrassed and upset - that’s really different from ‘should be held criminally liable’ though, isn’t it?

Parents, relatives and professionals of all types involved with this boy may well all be racking their consciences over ‘what could have I done differently to avert this?’ Investigations may indeed show that some were negligent, misguided or even actively complicit in the event itself, and criminal prosecution may result.

However, it does not follow that all parents are criminally liable just through being generic parents - or legal carers - of a child who does something wring.

Genetic, not generic.