Was this doctor a bit rude to DH?

[TheJudgeandJury]

Hi all,

When I was pregnant with DC2. My husband and I had a discussion and agreed that we would both get sterilised due to only wanting two children, finances, mental health etc we agreed it would be the best thing for our family. At first husband said he'd get the snip but I said I'd like to be sterilised as I wanted to take responsibility for my own reproductive health and knew I didn't want anymore kids but it would be great him getting the snip too because then we're double protected and it reduces the risk of an ectopic pregnancy.

So basically I got my tubes tied after my second baby during my c section - all good and husband said he'll book in for the snip. I completely forgot by that point but was like yeah okay.

He went to the doctors today and said it was more like an interrogation and the doctor were questioning him asking if I tricked him into it or was forcing him into it and if he knew he was essentially giving up his manhood?

I appreciate doctors need to make sure the patient is making the decision themselves etc but when I said I'd like to be sterilised there was no questioning like this and no one suggested I'd be giving up my womanhood.

It just seemed a bit odd and kinda rude to essentially blame me for it and say he was giving up his manhood.

Idk is this normal when a man asks for the snip?

I had this too. They seem to prefer doing the men.

It's strange to me that some doctors were suggesting PPs partners get the snip rather than them get sterilised like I appreciate it's an easier non invasive procedure and probably cheaper but like I've said I think everyone should be responsible for their own reproductive health.

When I wanted to be sterilised they did try and sway my decision and suggested the coil but I've heard too many horror stories so opted against it. No medical professional suggested DH get sterilised though.

Tbh when you read your side it all seems fairly straightforward but my brothers best friend was asked by his wife to have one after they’d had two children, when he got home from the op she’d packed his bags and thrown him out that very day, her point of view was he needed to provide for their two children and to be sure of that she’d made sure he couldn’t have anymore. At the time, and this was twenty years ago it was scandalous and I don’t recall him taking any action against her but thinking back on it he probably should have.

That's awful! That poor man.

There's definitely no ill intent here but I appreciate why doctors need to make sure and like you say they are some incidents where this happens and doctors have a duty of care but I think it was more the way it was phrased which seemed odd to me.

I don’t know why everyone is shitting on the OP for both parties getting sterilised and “wasting NHS money”. Thousands of pounds goes down the drain with people missing appointments, letting medication expire etc. We should be praising individuals for taking care of their own reproductive health, not bitching and playing the martyr over the bloody NHS.

3-6% men seek vasectomy reversal for reasons like starting a new relationship or if a child dies. Persistent Post vasectomy pain is a real risk - around 2% and can severely affect men’s lives.

Therefore men should be strongly counselled both about how they would feel if they started a new relationship or if something happened to one of their existing children and that they have thought through the emotional consequences of vasectomy. They also need to be warned it may cause debilitating pain. Also as men don’t tend to decide to get a vasectomy without discussing with their partner it should be standard to check that they are not being coerced. None of these things are particularly easy to ask a patient without causing offence but need to be done in a way that the patient actually understands the risks and consequences - sounds like your partners GP didn’t manage to do that…maybe tried to take a more casual “blokey” approach to build rapport but missed the mark.

good news is he has been referred tho so hopefully it was just the GP trying to be thorough in checking consent but not getting the right tone.

The phrasing, if accurate, is most definitely odd.

Men should consider the snip as irreversible on the NHS, so I suppose you need to ensure they know that reversal may not be funded.

When referring for fertility treatment both in the couple are referred, so if either has a child from a previous relationship then they don’t qualify for NHS treatment. So it’s not totally outrageous to ask about the other half of the couple.

How does it reduce the risk of an ectopic?

I find it really hard to believe a doctor using the phrase "giving up your manhood"!! More likely is that your DH doesn't fancy having a vasectomy.

It's his choice? He wasn't saying it to get out of it as he's already been referred.

@kateluvscats because the sperm won't be able to fertilise the egg?

A friend's dad is a urologist. He said he funded his second home via reverse vasectomies. (Private patients obvs.) So maybe they have a point about thoroughly checking the need for them on the NHS. 🤣

The DH getting the snip is a lot cheaper than dealing with an ectopic.

If the Dr used that specific wording then I’d think it’s definitely odd, my DH had a vasectomy when he was 24, everyone kept telling him he’d be refused because of his age but he didn’t want anymore children and he didn’t want me to be sterilised as it’s a much riskier operation.

The doctor asked a few standard questions but it certainly wasn’t an interrogation, they just asked him why he wanted to do it, was he 100% sure, what if he something changed and he had a different partner in the future etc along with explaining any risks and how the procedure goes.

They were fully satisfied with his reasons and happy to proceed with it, we’ve never used any other form of protection since so it’s definitely worked.

I appreciate what you mean and understand the need for making sure that someone really wants to go through having a procedure however DHs reason are valid in the sense he doesn't want anymore potentially disabled children so I don't see him changing his mind.

However I'm sure there's men and women who have regretted getting sterilised which I guess is why they make it clear a reversal won't be possible on the NHS which is absolutely fair enough.

Mumsnet is mad! It's the only place where people are criticised for using "too much" contraception and using too little contraception!

"Losing his manhood" is a very weird choice of words from a doctor especially.

Not in my area. I asked to be sterilised and was told it isn't funded and I'd need to ask my DH to get the snip. 😡

@PragmaticWench that's rubbish.

I don't know if they were more agreeable to mine because it was part of the c section so they were there anyway sort of thing but I did get some resistance.

The doctor sounds awful. Even if he didn't use those exact words, your husband shouldn't ever leave an appointment feeling that way.

Did he get the referral?

I don't see the issue with him being sterilised on the NHS if he's certain he doesn't want other children, too. It rules out the chances of lots of expensive mistakes.

I'll ask him what was said exactly. I know it was a older more traditional doctor.

You should probably have done that before starting the thread.

I was only saying that to appease the masses but I did ask if he was paraphrasing and he said no that's what the GP said to him.

I don't have any reason to doubt DH as I've had bad experiences with GPs before.

However the doctor has made the referral and that's all that matters really just thought his manner was a bit rude.

It must be so nice being a man and having the medical establishment care enough about your pain (or potential pain!) that they'll strongly counsel in this way. Women's pain, of course, doesn't matter at all.

I’ve had a few men come and see me asking for a vasectomy. Quite often the consultation starts like this:

“the missus says I’ve gotta get the snip as she doesn’t want to get knocked up again and I don’t like faffing with condoms when we’re having a shag”

So I’ve got to

1. check there not actually being forced into this by their wife as they have just stated (I know it’s just how men start generally start conversations with doctors - seriously it’s a trope - but I’ve got to actually check)
2. check they know it’s irreversible on the nhs and that even though they say they won’t change their mind somehow get through to them that quite a few men do indeed change their minds
3. check that they know there is a not inconsiderable chance of persistent permanent pain from a procedure that carries no medical benefit for them (female sterilisation has medical risks but also medical benefits for the women herself)
4. check they are aware that some men do indeed suffer mental health consequences post vasectomy based around them no longer potentially being able to father children (I think it’s about 1%)
5. check they are eligible on the nhs (which does involve asking about the current contraception used in the current relationship)

all in 10 minutes and using language that the patient understands.

If the consultation starts with the patient talking about “the missus” and “shagging” I’m not going to get very far with language like “coercion” and “irreversible post operative complications” and “emotional distress at the lack of the potential father role”. I hope wouldn’t ever say “giving up your manhood” as that just sounds crass but that might be what some people would take from the discussion around the mental health consequences. It would be a very different consultation in tone from one where the man comes in and says

“my wife and I don’t want any more children. We have discussed things and looked at multiple contraceptive options and feel that me getting a vasectomy is the best thing”

but I would still be covering the same ground. Seems to me the GP in this situation employed the wrong tone/set of words but got the right result. When you only have 10 minutes you have to make a guess of the patients education level and preferred level of formality in speech in the opening sentences and sometimes you get it wrong

@ThTheJudgeandJury Perhaps the doctor spoke of possible side / after effects and, even if your DH really wants to have the procedure, it might have made him have some doubts?

It’s a totally unnecessary surgery. If you want it you should be paying for it yourselves.