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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Settle my inheritance row!

677 replies

LetMeExplain · 05/04/2023 15:41

Long story short, my parents signed their house over to me 10+ years ago, under the caveat that they could live there until the end of their days. This house is my inheritance, as stated in their will.
My mum passed away and my dad can’t afford to stay in the house or manage its upkeep any more. He has a disastrous relationship with money and is basically destitute.
I agreed to sell the house and buy a flat for him, to live in rent free, all he has to pay is his cost. He now demands money from me as I am making a profit from the sale of the house. I don’t want to give him any, it’s my inheritance! AIBU?

OP posts:
TheOrigRights · 05/04/2023 17:04

LetMeExplain · 05/04/2023 17:00

I am not really after legal advice, as my dad and the house are not in the UK, it was more of a moral question. And now I know what a bad daughter I am!

Like I said, there is a back story to this that I don’t want to go into. I am the one who will have to live with the decision in the end.

Show quote history

You may not be after legal advice (MN would be a silly place to go to for that), but your thread is titled "Settle my inheritance row!" so you can't be snippy that people tried to advise and are now a bit miffed because you're not actually in the UK (yes I know you don't have to be in the UK to post, but it's a UK-based site and generally understood that if you are not in the UK then it's useful to tell people that).

Qhaecciarr · 05/04/2023 17:05

It's definitely a sensitive situation on the front of it - I appreciate your side of it, and perhaps your mother did push for this solution because she knew your dad would leave you with nothing, plus it was a legal arrangement your father opted into so from that standpoint, you owe him nothing.

However...I'd probably figure out some kind of solution to give him some money in this instance and make it very clear that this is the final resolution, eg you give him the value of the property increase since you were gifted the property, or maybe 50% of the value of the increase so he has some money to live somewhere else and start afresh in a new home. You may even be able to set up some kind of trust for him so he can only get a certain amount of cash per month so he has effectively a guaranteed small monthly income. I know this probably rankles, and it is in no way your financial mess to sort out when he's got himself into it, but in terms of reducing the emotional burden on both sides it might be a good solution as he did sign up to having somewhere to live for the rest of his days so should really receive some kind of help for this.

Mirabai · 05/04/2023 17:05

MakingitOver · 05/04/2023 17:02

This is complicated as it's not in the UK.

Posters need to understand there is a difference between a gift and a will.

Legally, the owner is you. It's a gift, not an inheritance.

Your father had an agreement to live there for life, and if this is in the contract (not his Will), then you should abide by that.

It would be a personal agreement between you to sell the house and provide him with another cheaper one.

Legally, he has no right to any surplus profit as he signed over his house and its value to you.

It's NOT an inheritance. It's yours now.

He needs to understand that you were given his house and it was not with the caveat that it could be sold and the excess profit returned to him.

If you decide to help him out with money from the sale, that's up to you, but legally, it's a grey area. It could be argued that although you are the owner, he had residence till his death. If he wants to move somewhere smaller, he may have grounds for using the outstanding equity to ensure he can live- but you need legal advice

That caveat wasn’t made because it obviously didn’t occur to OP’s parents that she would shaft them.

Rhondaa · 05/04/2023 17:06

As an aside how is this done, do we just go to a solicitors and change the name on the deeds or do we have to officially 'sell' even if it's for a nominal fee of £1?

Lweji · 05/04/2023 17:06

I wasn´t aware that Mumsnet had gone through Mumnexit and only Brits were allowed here.

This is a moral question rather than a legal one.

Morally, you were given the house, in trust, until both your parents died, not just your mum.

Hence the question, would you have inherited part of the house upon your mother´s death or not?
Where I live, 1/4 would probably have been mine by inheritance (of 1/2 of the house), and that´s the money I would be happy to keep to myself.
If your dad needs the rest of the money, or may need it in his old age, then agree with him how it´s dealt with. If he insists on keeping it all, then I´d give it to him and wash my hands off any financial support. If he recognises that he doesn´t manage his money well, then arrange to keep it safe in case he needs it.

Daleksatemyshed · 05/04/2023 17:06

That may be true @Mirabai but it won't be the amount of money Ops looking at now. What concerns me more is the talk of profit, ooh my parents are dead so I get money strikes me as very cold and cynical

MakingitOver · 05/04/2023 17:06

Basically OP,none of you looked very far ahead.

It isn't unusual for an older single parent to be unable to fund the outgoings of a larger house.

They may want to move. But they ought to have thought of this before.

Legally, he has signed his house over to you.

Not being able to support himself now, without equity from its sale, was something he didn't think about.

The main question is- what is he doing now that means he is short of cash?
As an old man his outgoings should be low.

Can you explore that and get help for him so he can manage his money better?

suburbophobe · 05/04/2023 17:08

And now I know what a bad daughter I am!

Please do not put yourself down OP @LetMeExplain.

I'm sure you have been a wonderful daughter (they wouldn't have signed the house over to you otherwise).

I hope you find a way out of this predicament. You can only do what is within your own limits.

Lellochip · 05/04/2023 17:08

Ginmonkeyagain · 05/04/2023 17:03

@TooBored1 The problem with this is it appears the OPs parents didn't really have any "wealth" - just the family home. Which if it had stayed in thier names would not be causing the issues it is now.

If it stayed in their names, he'd potentially be looking at a bankruptcy at some point, if he's just accumulating debt and not clearing it. OP could transfer the entire value of the house tomorrow, and he would still potentially end up desitute with nowhere to live.

Buying a flat in her own name and allowing him to live there is actually protecting him from his own bad decisions surely

Ginmonkeyagain · 05/04/2023 17:09

My view generally people's money is theirs to spend as they wish, no matter how unwise. Chidren has no right to an inheritance.

Therefore If I had been in the OP's situation I would have refused this "gift". It was only ever goint to be trouble.

But what is done is done and now you, OP, need to think about what is morally as well as legally right.

Could you take some money from the house - via equity relase or remortgage to fund your dad's essential expenses until he dies perhaps?

allmyliesaretrue · 05/04/2023 17:09

Mirabai · 05/04/2023 17:01

If she’s talking about “profit” as she does in the OP, there must be some left over after debts have been paid and father has been bought a property.@

Show quote history

Maybe he wasn't massively in debt 10 years ago when the house was transferred.

MakingitOver · 05/04/2023 17:10

@Mirabai Emotion is not part of legal documents and decisions. You could argue who is 'shafting' whom, as she was given the house, and all its value, with no codicil. Now, her father wants to move the goalposts.

Ginmonkeyagain · 05/04/2023 17:11

@suburbophobe I would argue they are not wonderful parents dragging her in to this financal and moral disaster zone.

hermioneee · 05/04/2023 17:11

What I don't understand is why the house is stated in their will yet you already own the house. If you already own the house I don't know why you are talking about Wills or inheritance.
As PP stated if it's your house then no you don't owe him anything. But that's nothing to do with being an inheritance and has everything to do with the fact it's your house and not his.

MakingitOver · 05/04/2023 17:13

I agreed to sell the house and buy a flat for him, to live in rent free, all he has to pay is his cost.

If you buy him a flat, there won't be any rent will there?

There would be a few outgoings- is that what you mean?

allmyliesaretrue · 05/04/2023 17:13

TheOrigRights · 05/04/2023 17:04

You may not be after legal advice (MN would be a silly place to go to for that), but your thread is titled "Settle my inheritance row!" so you can't be snippy that people tried to advise and are now a bit miffed because you're not actually in the UK (yes I know you don't have to be in the UK to post, but it's a UK-based site and generally understood that if you are not in the UK then it's useful to tell people that).

Show quote history

Where the OP lives is of fuck all relevance. It's about the principle.

ThomasinaLivesHere · 05/04/2023 17:14

This is why trying to avoid inheritance tax can end up causing issues. And signing over houses while continuing to live in them is usually susceptible to inheritance tax anyway. People should be very wary of handing over assets and trusting their relative will do what they want with it.

I sort of feel for your father. Your parents did something that might help you gain more from them financially and because of that he suffers.

Mirabai · 05/04/2023 17:14

allmyliesaretrue · 05/04/2023 17:09

Maybe he wasn't massively in debt 10 years ago when the house was transferred.

Show quote history

She’s talking about “profit” today though so she must believe there were will be some left after debts.

BeckyBeehive · 05/04/2023 17:14

He wants to have his cake and eat it now. It doesn't work like that. What "cake" has he had!? What cake does he have!? Can you explain to me the benefit to the OP's father of signing over his house to his daughter? That act was done solely for her benefit. You'd think she'd be grateful rather than begrudging him a roof over his head. Interesting how money exposes character.

allmyliesaretrue · 05/04/2023 17:14

MakingitOver · 05/04/2023 17:10

@Mirabai Emotion is not part of legal documents and decisions. You could argue who is 'shafting' whom, as she was given the house, and all its value, with no codicil. Now, her father wants to move the goalposts.

Exactly this!

Is there any way of guiding your father towards some form of debt management plan, @LetMeExplain ?

Peachy2005 · 05/04/2023 17:15

My guess is that OP is in Ireland where it is relatively common to do this if there is trust between parents and the adult child around the parents living out their lives in the property. I think it’s most commonly to avoid massive probate issues and taxes but it’s not illegal or frowned upon. It might also be to avoid a war with another relation that the parents really don’t want claiming any share of a house (or challenging a will).

I get that OPs DM probably didn’t envisage this situation and wouldn’t be too impressed with her husband - but I’m not sure OP can just keep insisting “it’s my inheritance“ as DF is still alive. Presumably the inheritance would be devalued further if DF kept living in it and failing to maintain it, running down its future sale value.

Could there be a compromise of buying the flat in the OPs name (which then becomes the “inheritance”) and a fixed amount of the profit to be paid over time as a small monthly allowance to top up his state pension to something that would be reasonable for a non-spendthrift?

worried4698643 · 05/04/2023 17:15

Legality's aside. Morally you are being a selfish knob.

RB68 · 05/04/2023 17:16

This isn't an inheritance anything. The house has been signed over to you, however there is a clause to say that your parent(s) can live out their lives there. The fact your Dad can't afford it is irrelevant - its your responsibility. This agreement can be revised between you and your Dad if you both AGREE to the terms - sounds like he doesn't and I don't blame him. He is doing you a favour down sizing as you wont have to meet the costs of maintaining the property. My advice would be to get legal advice on what is fair in the amendment (and also legal) personally if you want to release the house from the agreement you need to pay for your Fathers costs of removal to the flat you provide he then just needs to meet running costs. You are gaining massively in this and need to take a look at the whole thing objectively and without pound signs clouding your vision. It might also be better to place the house in a trust (from a cap gains point of view) and solicitor would be best placed to advise on that

ConstanceOcean · 05/04/2023 17:16

The mistake they made was signing it over to you before they had died, they should have just left it in the will.

What was the reason for this?
So you don’t pay inheritance tax on it?

They did this with you on mind, for your benefit.

If I had parents that generous then I would happily help them out with finances.

Legally it is your money.
Morally I think you should help your dad financially like he’s has helped you.

You do sound very money grabbing as you will still have the flat so it’s not like they’ve left you nothing.

I would but a decent flat and then half the money that’s left over.
You’ll still have 75% of the original value of the house from 10 years ago and with house prices rising that’s a considerable amount more today.
So you are helping your dad but not paying the price financially.

MoralOrLegal · 05/04/2023 17:16

allmyliesaretrue · 05/04/2023 17:13

Where the OP lives is of fuck all relevance. It's about the principle.

Show quote history

There are some tax implications if the OP is in the UK. Which might impact how much and how she could help her father, however it's actually done.