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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Settle my inheritance row!

677 replies

LetMeExplain · 05/04/2023 15:41

Long story short, my parents signed their house over to me 10+ years ago, under the caveat that they could live there until the end of their days. This house is my inheritance, as stated in their will.
My mum passed away and my dad can’t afford to stay in the house or manage its upkeep any more. He has a disastrous relationship with money and is basically destitute.
I agreed to sell the house and buy a flat for him, to live in rent free, all he has to pay is his cost. He now demands money from me as I am making a profit from the sale of the house. I don’t want to give him any, it’s my inheritance! AIBU?

OP posts:
Dahliass · 05/04/2023 20:27

HomeTheatreSystem · 05/04/2023 20:23

If you read OPs posts (there's not that many) you will see how wide of the mark you are. IHT doesn't come into it at all. Had the house not been signed over to OP, her feckless father would have lost it in settling his repeated cycle of indebtedness and both he and her mum would have been homeless. As it is, he still owes more than the value of the house so any lump sum he receives would go to his current set of creditors.

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That's his choice to make. Be very careful as authorities might see it as financial abuse from relatives. If he has mental capacity he can run up as much debt as he likes.

YetMoreNewBeginnings · 05/04/2023 20:27

HomeTheatreSystem · 05/04/2023 20:23

If you read OPs posts (there's not that many) you will see how wide of the mark you are. IHT doesn't come into it at all. Had the house not been signed over to OP, her feckless father would have lost it in settling his repeated cycle of indebtedness and both he and her mum would have been homeless. As it is, he still owes more than the value of the house so any lump sum he receives would go to his current set of creditors.

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Ah well. If it’s only actual debts of his the Op is helping him dodge, rather than just IHT and care fees, that makes it totally different…

KettrickenSmiled · 05/04/2023 20:30

DotAndCarryOne2 · 05/04/2023 19:16

It’s not an inheritance. Soooooo many people assuming this. Was signed over to the OP ten years ago - she owns it. And her poor dad is a disaster with money so this was designed to protect him from himself. Maybe RTFT before posting like this.

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Calm down. Rudicat, like most other PP, were well within their rights to assume the house was to be inherited, rather than being currently owned.

OP's thread title is fully responsible for that.

As was her pussy-footing around by telling everyone she didn't want to get into the reasons she didn't want to give him any money - I don’t want to give him any, it’s my inheritance!
It was only later that she dripfed updated about his compulsive spending habits, & it took a while for her to even clarify that she is the current legal owner of the property.

TheSilentSister · 05/04/2023 20:31

If the house is in your name as the legal owner but with a caveat that your father can reside in it til death - then no, he doesn't get his grubby hands on any left over cash once the house is sold. You are being reasonable in agreeing to sell the family home and buy a flat for him to live in. Do not be guilt tripped by him or anyone else to parting with cash too.

FrenchieF · 05/04/2023 20:33

updates are irrelevant, it’s still your dads right to live in that home and if you chosen to sell it it is only right he’s provided for and given what he’s needs from the sale.

diddl · 05/04/2023 20:33

Ah well. If it’s only actual debts of his the Op is helping him dodge, rather than just IHT and care fees, that makes it totally different…

I know!

Giving away an asset so you won't be liable for debts!

KettrickenSmiled · 05/04/2023 20:35

allmyliesaretrue · 05/04/2023 19:21

Exactly this!

Sometimes I do worry about the human species...

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The human species includes OP, who chose to title her thread settle my inheritance row, leading many PP to believe that the house was part of her future inheritance.

She didn't bother clearing that one up for a few updates, no point castigating PP for believing she meant what she originally wrote.

Puckthemagicdragon · 05/04/2023 20:35

It's a variation of trust (I assume) so it depends what you agreed in varying the terms.

TomeTome · 05/04/2023 20:35

You can’t keep the money if it’s owed to his debtors, that would be awful.

magicthree · 05/04/2023 20:36

My mum passed away and my dad can’t afford to stay in the house or manage its upkeep any more.

Surely if it's your house then you pay for the upkeep. It seems like you want a free house but don't want any of the responsibilty of owning it. Your parents were not put on this earth to provide you with an inheritance btw.

mybeautifuloak · 05/04/2023 20:37

They signed it over to you early to allow you to avoid inheritance tax I assume. And perhaps to prevent the house being swallowed up by his debts. The intention was that they would live comfortably until they die. Now that your father is unable to live in the house you are taking the opportunity to take everything you can even though it means he won't be living as comfortably.
This people is why you never sign your stuff over early. Your dc can become nasty grabby entitled evil monsters who leave you with less than you should be left with.
They should have kept the house in their name and left you to pay the inheritance tax you ghastly person. You really are the worst person I've read about on Mn

youshouldnthaveasked · 05/04/2023 20:37

wow, what a selfish money grabbing horror you are

strawberry2017 · 05/04/2023 20:37

youshouldnthaveasked · 05/04/2023 20:37

wow, what a selfish money grabbing horror you are

Have you actually read all of Op's comments?

DotAndCarryOne2 · 05/04/2023 20:40

mycoffeecup · 05/04/2023 19:44

Unless they've been paying you a market rate for rent, on which you pay tax, this is tax evasion and likely to be discovered if you sell. That loophole was closed years ago

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It doesn’t sound as though he is paying rent, and unless the house is worth more than the IHT threshold I don’t think there are tax implications

KettrickenSmiled · 05/04/2023 20:42

DotAndCarryOne2 · 05/04/2023 19:27

And presumably the LA will find it all to be above board because it was done legally, ten years ago and well before there was any likelihood of either parent needing full time care- so not deprivation of assets. In the unlikely event that they deem the house does belong to him the LA wouldn’t benefit because that being the case, the house would have to be sold to pay his debts, so nothing left for care. If the OP is found to own the house legally then there is no legal obligation for her to sell it to pay for his care - although there’d be a moral one I think. And no LA is going to fund a care home just because someone asks. There has to be a need.

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Presumably there is no "the LA" , care home system & deprivation of assets law as you perceive it in UK-specific law, as DF lives abroad, in the disputed house.

And you gloried in telling other PP to RTFT, DotAndCarry.
How the mighty are fallen!

laveritable · 05/04/2023 20:43

Spot on! This is a lesson for us all!

Banditrules · 05/04/2023 20:46

mybeautifuloak · 05/04/2023 20:37

They signed it over to you early to allow you to avoid inheritance tax I assume. And perhaps to prevent the house being swallowed up by his debts. The intention was that they would live comfortably until they die. Now that your father is unable to live in the house you are taking the opportunity to take everything you can even though it means he won't be living as comfortably.
This people is why you never sign your stuff over early. Your dc can become nasty grabby entitled evil monsters who leave you with less than you should be left with.
They should have kept the house in their name and left you to pay the inheritance tax you ghastly person. You really are the worst person I've read about on Mn

Ghastly person? I’d suggest that would be you. With no reading comprehension apparently.

Where does it say that he won’t live comfortably? He can’t afford the bills for the house he’s in, so OP buys a smaller property for him to live in that he can actually afford to heat. That constitutes living comfortably, no? More comfortably than in the current house I’d say.

Or would you rather he stay where he is, where he can’t afford to live? In which case he still wouldn’t get any cash from OP by the way, as there’d be no money from the house sale then.

samsmum2 · 05/04/2023 20:47

Stravaig · 05/04/2023 17:53

Your plan sounds perfectly reasonable to me, OP. Well done on weathering the Mumsnet batshittery!

This.

MarvelMrs · 05/04/2023 20:48

Inheritance is what you inherit if there is anything left to be given at the end of person/couple’s life. You really
shouldn’t be entitled to it until both your parents
have passed away and only if there is anything left to inherit. Morally speaking. Legally it sounds like it’s all yours.

Newmumatlast · 05/04/2023 20:49

nomoremerlot · 05/04/2023 19:46

Unless they paid market rent, then it's not outside the estate for IHT purposes. Not convinced the DF is paying market rent.

www.gnlaw.co.uk/news/gift-with-reservation-of-benefit-iht/

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That's a good point

Original poster
LetMeExplain · 05/04/2023 20:50

I am still here, still reading your replies. It’s interesting to see all of the thoughts going around in my head laid out in all of the different posts.

Thank you to the posters who are acknowledging that this is a complex situation and that I am not simply a money grabbing monster.

OP posts:
KettrickenSmiled · 05/04/2023 20:50

HomeTheatreSystem · 05/04/2023 20:23

If you read OPs posts (there's not that many) you will see how wide of the mark you are. IHT doesn't come into it at all. Had the house not been signed over to OP, her feckless father would have lost it in settling his repeated cycle of indebtedness and both he and her mum would have been homeless. As it is, he still owes more than the value of the house so any lump sum he receives would go to his current set of creditors.

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So it's not a tax dodge, it's a creditor-avoidance dodge.

Er - nope, that doesn't make it any more morally acceptable.

I accept the DF's financial fecklessness makes the OP's position more emotionally appealing though. Poor demi-orphan, protected from the storm only due to her mother's foresight ... much easier to swallow that as a reason OP should keep the asset rather than it going to the people & org's her dad still owes shedloads of cash to.

HomeTheatreSystem · 05/04/2023 20:52

Newmumatlast · 05/04/2023 20:49

That's a good point

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Neither the house nor the father are in the UK.

Mix56 · 05/04/2023 20:52

Could you buy a small flat for him to live in & give him a fixed amount to pay for essentials per month? ( if that works financially?) with a caveat that there will be no more.
If he pisses it up against the wall, tough

DotAndCarryOne2 · 05/04/2023 20:58

KettrickenSmiled · 05/04/2023 20:42

Presumably there is no "the LA" , care home system & deprivation of assets law as you perceive it in UK-specific law, as DF lives abroad, in the disputed house.

And you gloried in telling other PP to RTFT, DotAndCarry.
How the mighty are fallen!

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Sorry to disappoint you but I was perfectly aware that the OP is in the UK and DF is not. I was answering a poster who was accusatory in tone to the OP and clearly referring to the law on deprivation of assets as it applies in the UK. We don’t know what country DF is in, so we’re not able to comment on what might be the case there. Just contributing, not trying to trip posters up.