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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask for space and ventilation on crowded trains.

133 replies

Booblessbeauty · 05/04/2023 13:15

I am going backward and forward to hospital having chemotherapy, and the medical advice is to sit away from other passengers and keep the windows open. Some trains are standing room only, and I have to ask for space to be left near me when there are no other seats. Most people are kind and understanding, but I have had chemotherapy today, and both going in and coming out, I have had people ignore my requests.

On my way in, on a crowded rush hour train, a man insisted on moving my bag and sitting on the seat next to me, even though I had paid an extra ticket for my bag, and explained to him about the chemo.

On the way back, another man insisted on closing all the windows in the carriage, because he "felt cold" even though an infection could kill me

It is quite obvious I am undergoing chemotherapy, as I am bald, wearing a mask, and have a sunflower lanyard around my neck with "Chemotherapy patient needing social distancing and ventilation" written on it quite clearly. - The hospital gives this to patients who have to travel to chemotherapy by public transport.

Most people are lovely, but today was quite upsetting. The worst thing that has ever happened to me on these trips was a well dressed young woman in a business suit physically kicking me out of the way because I couldn't move fast enough for her, then acting as if she was the one hard done by, being forced to touch me with her precious shoe.

Thank you to all those people who do listen and understand , and give me space though. Which is most people

OP posts:
amylou8 · 05/04/2023 14:59

Kindly YABU. If an infection could kill you then you shouldn't be on a crowded train. Having a spare seat next to you or opening a window will not make the slightest bit of difference if you are that vulnerable... despite all the drivel we were fed during covid. However genuine your health concerns are, getting anxious and demanding your space on a standing room only train will not go down well.

Littlewhitecat · 05/04/2023 15:03

OP do you have any friends who can help out with lifts. A group of us set up a rota to take a friend of ours for chemo because she was too ill from side effects to drive and she couldn't have taken public transport even if she wanted to because there is none where we live. We then sat with her whilst she had her chemo and then took her home (with sick bowl). It meant taking a day off work for most of us but I would do it again in a heart beat as she is a great friend (who is now cancer free).

Rainbowshit · 05/04/2023 15:04

Sorry you are being unrealistic.

SweetPeaGirl · 05/04/2023 15:05

You could also try contacting local community support things - churches, food banks, community centres, that sort of thing. They often have volunteers who can be organised to do bespoke stuff like giving lifts. You could try a local FB group or NextDoor app to see if anyone has any ideas / can point you in the right direction rather than having to contact different places in turn.

Some areas also have like a volunteering hub or something like that which supports different little groups. They might be able to sign post you. (Find them via your local council website)

Sadly there might not be anything, but at the same time I am often surprised by just how much informal help is around. It's often hard to find but once you find it - wow.

StripyHorse · 05/04/2023 15:05

It's tricky with the social distancing issue on a crowded train. Especially if the person wanting to sit down has disabilities or mobility issues (I appreciate most people are just being selfish though). YANBU to want (need) the space but at the same time, public transport is not geared towards that. I know you can't just switch chemo days / times to avoid peak times too so you can't avoid the situation.

I definitely am with you on the shutting the window being unreasonable! Unless there are minus temps outside, it is not going to get THAT cold that people can't cope with the window open for 1/2 hr.

You said you wear a mask - I assume this is at least FFP2 (if not, consider upgrading). You can also buy portable HEPA filters could help with ventilation. It won't be the same as a properly ventilated space but is better then nothing https://amzn.eu/d/2FxSJs1

All the best with the treatment.

Original poster
Booblessbeauty · 05/04/2023 15:07

amylou8 · 05/04/2023 14:59

Kindly YABU. If an infection could kill you then you shouldn't be on a crowded train. Having a spare seat next to you or opening a window will not make the slightest bit of difference if you are that vulnerable... despite all the drivel we were fed during covid. However genuine your health concerns are, getting anxious and demanding your space on a standing room only train will not go down well.

I don't have any choice but to travel to chemo on a crowded train. It is all very well saying I "shouldn't" - but that is the only way to get to hospital!

I am not requesting space and ventilation because I am anxious, either, I am requesting it because that is the medical advice I have been given. I have been instructed to make sure I am socially distanced, and have the windows open.

OP posts:
StripyHorse · 05/04/2023 15:07

Sorry, didn't mean to sound boss about the masks - but FFP2 or FFP3 offer more protection to the wearer as well as those around. My dad upgraded when he was having chemo, and I wore these around him too because I couldn't isolate away from other people.

thegrain · 05/04/2023 15:08

Albiboba · 05/04/2023 14:38

@thegrain Or you could lock yourself in the loo?

Terrible advice.

Ok it was only a suggestion. I can't really think how else OP can get space.

ArcticBells · 05/04/2023 15:09

I travel on commuter trains. OP if you have paid for two seats, you need to have an A5 notice with "I have paid for 2 seats" clearly written on it and placed on the spare seat.

Original poster
Booblessbeauty · 05/04/2023 15:09

StripyHorse · 05/04/2023 15:05

It's tricky with the social distancing issue on a crowded train. Especially if the person wanting to sit down has disabilities or mobility issues (I appreciate most people are just being selfish though). YANBU to want (need) the space but at the same time, public transport is not geared towards that. I know you can't just switch chemo days / times to avoid peak times too so you can't avoid the situation.

I definitely am with you on the shutting the window being unreasonable! Unless there are minus temps outside, it is not going to get THAT cold that people can't cope with the window open for 1/2 hr.

You said you wear a mask - I assume this is at least FFP2 (if not, consider upgrading). You can also buy portable HEPA filters could help with ventilation. It won't be the same as a properly ventilated space but is better then nothing https://amzn.eu/d/2FxSJs1

All the best with the treatment.

I am using FFP2 masks at the moment. I will look into this filter. Thank you

OP posts:
thegrain · 05/04/2023 15:10

TheOrigRights · 05/04/2023 14:49

What a state our society is in.

This reminds me of my solicitor suggesting I lock myself in my garden office to protect myself from my abusive ex.
Have a think before you type speak.

Show quote history

I wasn't saying OP should have to! I'm just trying to think of possible ways to get the space.

thegrain · 05/04/2023 15:11

ArcticBells · 05/04/2023 15:09

I travel on commuter trains. OP if you have paid for two seats, you need to have an A5 notice with "I have paid for 2 seats" clearly written on it and placed on the spare seat.

I think that only works if OP books a seat

thegrain · 05/04/2023 15:12

Radical idea but could you try saying the hospital have advised me to keep my distance from people. And then make it seem like they are at risk from you? I know that's backwards but some people are utterly selfish. You could cough and people will automatically give you space these days.

DumbPrinceAndHisStupidWife · 05/04/2023 15:14

I think even with distancing, it really makes very little distance on a busy train. The ventilation is going to be poor anyway, they are so crowded. It's probably why many people won't bother.

I'm sorry that the train is your only option- this thread brings it home again how poor healthcare is. That's what springs out at me, more than anything about the other passengers. Public transport shouldn't be your only option.

If it's possible, I'd go first class in your circumstances. Speak to the train company or the staff on the train. They should upgrade you to first class.

Wishing you all the best with your treatment and a speedy recovery, OP.

JenniferBarkley · 05/04/2023 15:15

ArcticBells · 05/04/2023 15:09

I travel on commuter trains. OP if you have paid for two seats, you need to have an A5 notice with "I have paid for 2 seats" clearly written on it and placed on the spare seat.

The problem is she likely hasn't paid for two seats, she's paid for two tickets. A ticket doesn't entitle you to a seat on most commuter trains.

ArcticBells · 05/04/2023 15:28

Sorry, I thought the seats were booked!

Paloma66 · 05/04/2023 15:31

ArcticBells · 05/04/2023 15:09

I travel on commuter trains. OP if you have paid for two seats, you need to have an A5 notice with "I have paid for 2 seats" clearly written on it and placed on the spare seat.

It depends. I travel on commuter trains. My ticket does not entitle me to a seat. There are no seat reservations.

Siepie · 05/04/2023 15:55

ArcticBells · 05/04/2023 15:09

I travel on commuter trains. OP if you have paid for two seats, you need to have an A5 notice with "I have paid for 2 seats" clearly written on it and placed on the spare seat.

You don't pay for seats on trains, but for tickets. All the people standing also have a ticket, just like OP's bag does.

OP it's not a good situation but I don't think it's possible to make anything change. I'm on permanent treatment that affects my immune system (not as severely as chemo, luckily). Even in the middle of the pandemic, when everyone was "supposed" to be social distancing, it just wasn't possible on public transport.

ClaudiaWankleman · 05/04/2023 15:57

Booblessbeauty · 05/04/2023 13:36

no, it was deliberate, I assure you, absolutely no accident, yelling at me to move out of the way as they approached me, then when I couldn't move fast enough, heavy sigh, pained expression, and repeated hard kicks. No mistaking it for an accident - it was the whole expression of "OMG look what I am having to do to clear the crap out of the way so that I can walk as fast as I need to". This woman seriously thought SHE was the one being wronged.

Show quote history

No it wasn't deliberate. If it was you would have called the police.

I am dreadfully sorry for your situation OP - it's got to be horrendous. Unfortunately you're asking for something completely unreasonable, and seem to have lost the plot a bit.

donttellmehesalive · 05/04/2023 15:57

onefinemess · 05/04/2023 14:31

Just one of those things OP.

It's unrealistic to think that complete strangers would care about you or your illness.

This is really sad. Decent people should care about even a stranger's illness. They are not being asked to rub her back or give her a foot massage, just to let her keep a window open and use the two seats she's booked and paid for. I'd do that much for anyone.

And I'm not buying 'other people have needs too' either. If they did, they'd say. When op said 'actually I've paid for a second seat because I am on my way back from chemo' they'd reply 'sorry but I do really need to sit down as I feel ill myself' or whatever.

OP, I think first class or an official 'I've paid for both seats' sign as pp have suggested is the way to go. I hope you make a full recovery.

Original poster
Booblessbeauty · 05/04/2023 17:00

ClaudiaWankleman · 05/04/2023 15:57

No it wasn't deliberate. If it was you would have called the police.

I am dreadfully sorry for your situation OP - it's got to be horrendous. Unfortunately you're asking for something completely unreasonable, and seem to have lost the plot a bit.

Show quote history

It absolutely was deliberate, I can assure you, and no, I have not in any way, lost any plot.

OP posts:
QuimIsASwearWord · 05/04/2023 17:05

No it wasn't deliberate. If it was you would have called the police.

I am dreadfully sorry for your situation OP - it's got to be horrendous. Unfortunately you're asking for something completely unreasonable, and seem to have lost the plot a bit.

Surely the OP who actually there and saw the attitude and demeanour of the woman who kicked her knows if it was deliberate better than you?

Op has cancer, she sounds scared, like many people with cancer are.

She won't get space on public transport but it doesn't mean she's lying about being kicked or lost the plot for trying to reduce risks to herself.

My brother was kicked by a drunk on the way home from a night out and he didnt phone the police. He's had thing wellies off his head by idiots at the back of the bus many times and his wife who works for the police says fuck all will happen.

I have family who drive public transport for a living and who have been attacked and get threatened almost daily, and there's very few arrests.

Ive been smacked in the back by a drunk woman, also didn't phone the police. I know a few women who have sexually assaulted on public transport, didn't phone the police.

Doesn't mean they weren't deliberate acts.

Original poster
Booblessbeauty · 05/04/2023 17:09

QuimIsASwearWord · 05/04/2023 17:05

No it wasn't deliberate. If it was you would have called the police.

I am dreadfully sorry for your situation OP - it's got to be horrendous. Unfortunately you're asking for something completely unreasonable, and seem to have lost the plot a bit.

Surely the OP who actually there and saw the attitude and demeanour of the woman who kicked her knows if it was deliberate better than you?

Op has cancer, she sounds scared, like many people with cancer are.

She won't get space on public transport but it doesn't mean she's lying about being kicked or lost the plot for trying to reduce risks to herself.

My brother was kicked by a drunk on the way home from a night out and he didnt phone the police. He's had thing wellies off his head by idiots at the back of the bus many times and his wife who works for the police says fuck all will happen.

I have family who drive public transport for a living and who have been attacked and get threatened almost daily, and there's very few arrests.

Ive been smacked in the back by a drunk woman, also didn't phone the police. I know a few women who have sexually assaulted on public transport, didn't phone the police.

Doesn't mean they weren't deliberate acts.

Thank you

OP posts:
BlueHeelers · 05/04/2023 17:21

Can you avoid rush hour?

Without wanting to minimise the cruelty you’ve experienced, rush hour commuting is brutal day in, day out. And commuters are so exhausted by the overcrowded, having to stand in a crush, the early start etc.

Can you travel later or earlier or by a more private way?

Original poster
Booblessbeauty · 05/04/2023 17:35

BlueHeelers · 05/04/2023 17:21

Can you avoid rush hour?

Without wanting to minimise the cruelty you’ve experienced, rush hour commuting is brutal day in, day out. And commuters are so exhausted by the overcrowded, having to stand in a crush, the early start etc.

Can you travel later or earlier or by a more private way?

no, not really, if chemo starts at 9, I have to travel before 9, and all the trains are full before 9, even the first one ( actually especially the first one...)

OP posts:
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