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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think you can't be a nice person if you marry a sh*t one?

92 replies

aplateandaspoon · 04/04/2023 09:39

I know this couple, let's call her Lily who is married to Jack. I know Jack much better than I know Lily. We are not friends per se, but we see each other often as we have friends in common. I also know Jack's family very well.

Lily seems to be the most adorable lovely person, always polite and smily. But Jack is an absolute dickhead, he treats anyone in the service industry (waiters, cleaners, etc...) like they are beneath him and he is rude to them. He makes awful comments to people he knows like "oh you better get married soon otherwise people will assume you are gay"... things like that.

I know Jack's family pretty well, and I know he treats his mum really badly. He snaps at her and the way sometimes he speaks to her is shocking. Once he even let slip that he can't stand her but she helps them with childcare and with rent so he has to put up with her otherwise they will lose the money.

So going back to Lily... my question is, how can a "good" person marry someone so awful? I just think she cannot be a good person at all. If my partner spoke to people like Jack does, that would be a dealbreaker for me.

I've never tried to engage with Lily much, other than polite pleasantries, cause I don't want a relationship with them (mainly Jack) but part of me also cannot believe she is a genuinely nice person if she married someone like Jack.

So my question is, can who chooses to be partners with someone so awful be a genuinely nice person?

OP posts:
teacakie · 04/04/2023 09:42

Yes of course. Let's judge the woman in the man's actions.

bloodywhitecat · 04/04/2023 09:42

Because Lily grew up in a similar family with a father who has traits like Jack?

GOODCAT · 04/04/2023 09:43

Yes and she may be subject to his abuse too

CalistoNoSolo · 04/04/2023 09:43

Donald and melania, Bo-Jo and his twatty wife spring immediately to mind.

StreamingCervix · 04/04/2023 09:43

I suppose it comes down to if you believe people fall in to one of two camps, good and bad.

Personally I’ve always thought humans come in all shades of behaviour and radiate differently to certain people/situations in time.

Heroicallyfound · 04/04/2023 09:44

People often marry those who are emotionally like their opposite sex parent. So maybe Lily was brought up with an equally horrible dad and she learned to be nice and good as a coping mechanism, because maybe that kept her as safe as possible from being the target of her father’s rage? Maybe she learned that’s all she’s worthy of and she chose what’s familiar rather than what’s good for her. It’s a common pattern. You just never know what’s going on underneath.

CalistoNoSolo · 04/04/2023 09:45

Women can be vile, and choose equally vile partners.

Walrussy · 04/04/2023 09:46

I know lots of couples where one partner is horrible and the other is genuinely lovely (but much too soft for their own good).

Iam4eels · 04/04/2023 09:47

I'd put money on Lily being subject to emotional abuse, if not other forms of abuse.

Vile people don't tend to advertise to newcomers that they're vile, there's a chance Lily didn't see his true colours until she was already sucked in at which point rose tinted glasses will have done a good job of hiding the red flags

Mumteedum · 04/04/2023 09:48

Because she has low self-esteem.
Because she has seen her father behave in similar ways and it feels safe and normal to her.

She could be awful. But it's likely to be more complex.

Ktime · 04/04/2023 09:49

Same old shit, making a woman responsible for a man’s behaviour.

DanceMonster · 04/04/2023 09:50

I don’t think people fall into neat categories of ‘good’ and ‘bad’. There are likely many reasons Lily is married to Jack, and without knowing the ins and ours of their history and relationship it’s impossible to know what they are.
Maybe he’s emotionally and financially abusive and she can’t leave. Maybe she’s an arsehole too. Who knows?

KimberleyClark · 04/04/2023 09:50

Perhaps it’s the “bad boy” thing. Some women like them apparently.

KimberleyClark · 04/04/2023 09:52

Ktime · 04/04/2023 09:49

Same old shit, making a woman responsible for a man’s behaviour.

No one is doing that. Asking why a woman stays with a shit man isn’t maki g her responsible for the fact he’s shit.

Backstreets · 04/04/2023 09:52

Yes, I believe a nice person can be married to a dickhead.

fleurpots · 04/04/2023 09:54

Have you never paused to think, if this is how he treats people in public, how he treats her in private?

JMSA · 04/04/2023 09:54

I've wondered about this too, OP. And I'm sorry, but despite people's backgrounds and all the excuses under the sun, I agree with you.

I read sometimes about celebrities who are lovely, but their partners are awful. Nah, I don't buy it.

mewkins · 04/04/2023 09:56

A couple I know like this - the 'bad' partner started off as ok and then has become worse and more controlling over the years. They have a house and a child (he provides the most childcare and threatens to never let his child see her mum if she leaves) so she is pretty much stuck.

Sprinkles21 · 04/04/2023 09:56

I had an ex like this, he was verbally and emotionally abusive to me, told me no one else would ever love me not that he ever did I was a possession. You never know what goes on behind closed doors. Also she may just be *fake and actually a cow too

Chinuplippyon · 04/04/2023 09:57

I was going to make 2 points- both of which PPs have made very clearly already! But anyway-

  1. people are complicated. There isn't really a binary category for good and bad for most people. Actions can tip the balance but whilst Jack sounds very unpleasant, he hasn't necessarily done anything beyond the pale in lily's view. Jack may be snappy, rude, uncouth and entitled but have qualities that appeal to Lily. These could be hidden virtues such as loyalty, intelligence, humour or generosity. They could be as simple as being a good, steady provider and reliable. She may be low in self esteem and think this is as good as it gets.

  2. there can be reasons in an individual's past that inform their behaviours. Lily could have had a rude aggressive dad or an abrasive home atmosphere so has unconsciously sought out the same. Jack could have had an abusive upbringing that's led him to develop aggressive behaviour. Lily might understand that and empathise, and essentially see beyond it.

But no, I don't think it's as simple as tarring her with the same brush. She might feel beaten down, intimidated or simply used to unpleasant behaviour. She might feel she knows 'the real him' and overlooks it. She might not care as long as she has a husband present. People don't pick their own backgrounds so it depends how you see 'good' and 'bad'.

JackiePlace · 04/04/2023 09:57

Whatever the truth of it is, couples come as a package. You can't be friendly with just one of them.
I also have a big problem with this as my sister has just married an ignorant, racist, loud-mouthed, uncouth dickhead and has given up her professional career (she was very close to qualifying as a chartered accountant) to help him in his doomed restaurant business washing dishes and prepping vegetables and such.
I do not understand this at all. She is a tad eccentric but has a heart of gold and never lacked boyfriends.

IShouldGoToSleep · 04/04/2023 09:57

My mum married a horrendous person. He beat are terribly. He was rude, had sick views and was truly an unpleasant man. She married him young because her own mother was horrid to her and wanted her married off. She had no confidence, thought noone else would have her. At one point she tried to back out of the wedding but in the end went though with it. She tried to leave after they got married, after one particularly brutal attack, but was scared and didn't know where to go, so she called her father who took her back. After 3 kids and 15 years married to the man, she finally left.

These things are complicated.

Theimpossiblegirl · 04/04/2023 09:58

Of course, women who don't immediately realise their partners are abusive fuckers just aren't nice people. That's why.

I always believed it was much more complex than that, with patterns of abuse and shitty behaviour building up over time, fear of leaving, hoping they'll change, nowhere to go, no money, but nope, they're just not nice people.

I'm being sarcastic just in case my tone is too subtle.

mewkins · 04/04/2023 10:01

Another question to ask is: does being friends with a horrible person make you horrible? If so, you need to ditch your friends 😄

TennisWithDeborah · 04/04/2023 10:04

I’ve known relationships like this. The Lily character (not always the woman) is usually downtrodden with low self-esteem. If you really like her OP, make friends with her. When he decides he’s done with her, she’ll need supportive mates.

The examples of Carrie Johnson and Melania Trump are not the same as the OP’s. They married influence/power/money, which is different. They’re both prepared to ignore their spouses’ failings because of the material advantages their marriages bring.