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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think you can't be a nice person if you marry a sh*t one?

92 replies

aplateandaspoon · 04/04/2023 09:39

I know this couple, let's call her Lily who is married to Jack. I know Jack much better than I know Lily. We are not friends per se, but we see each other often as we have friends in common. I also know Jack's family very well.

Lily seems to be the most adorable lovely person, always polite and smily. But Jack is an absolute dickhead, he treats anyone in the service industry (waiters, cleaners, etc...) like they are beneath him and he is rude to them. He makes awful comments to people he knows like "oh you better get married soon otherwise people will assume you are gay"... things like that.

I know Jack's family pretty well, and I know he treats his mum really badly. He snaps at her and the way sometimes he speaks to her is shocking. Once he even let slip that he can't stand her but she helps them with childcare and with rent so he has to put up with her otherwise they will lose the money.

So going back to Lily... my question is, how can a "good" person marry someone so awful? I just think she cannot be a good person at all. If my partner spoke to people like Jack does, that would be a dealbreaker for me.

I've never tried to engage with Lily much, other than polite pleasantries, cause I don't want a relationship with them (mainly Jack) but part of me also cannot believe she is a genuinely nice person if she married someone like Jack.

So my question is, can who chooses to be partners with someone so awful be a genuinely nice person?

OP posts:
Maverickess · 04/04/2023 10:05

If Jack treats everyone else like that, chances are as his wife he treats Lily worse.
But then the more we focus on the people around the arsehole, rather than the arsehole and their behaviour, the longer it goes unchallenged, which is why people like Jack go unchallenged - Lily is the easy target because she presents as nice.

Aposterhasnoname · 04/04/2023 10:08

Gosh I don’t know. Maybe he was charm itself when reeling her in, but now she too far invested he’s showing her his true colours.

RudsyFarmer · 04/04/2023 10:09

Jack might have put on his best behaviour pre marriage and reverted to a twat afterwards. Now the woman is shackled to an idiot. Kids in tow. It’s difficult to just walk away even if you’re terminally embarrassed.

gannett · 04/04/2023 10:09

Well obviously it's not as simple as people being GOOD or BAD and someone who comes across as grumpy or abrasive or arrogant might well have a lot of positive points that you don't get to see when you're not in a relationship with them.

But taking out the blanket labels - if someone says or does eg racist or homophobic things, then as far as I'm concerned their partner condones and is complicit in their bigotry, and I'll treat them as such. No excuses.

purpledalmation · 04/04/2023 10:11

Because when she married him he put on a 'nice guy' act. If she has children it makes it even more difficult to leave. Maybe he is nice to her and a dick to everyone else?

gannett · 04/04/2023 10:11

I also don't assume that someone who's nasty to other people is also nasty to his/her partner. In my experience the partner often excuses them by saying "well s/he treats ME well so can't really be nasty deep down".

LuckyStone · 04/04/2023 10:14

Wow it must be nice living with such a simple worldview

ConstanceOcean · 04/04/2023 10:48

YANBU

My friend of 15 years met a guy who was racist (and controlling) and he said she wasn’t allowed around me or my child because of it.

I assumed she would end the relationship straight away but instead she stayed with him.

To me that makes her almost as bad as him.

Iam4eels · 04/04/2023 10:54

It's not always as simple as "just leave" though. If a relationship is abusive then leaving is dangerous, it has to be properly prepared for as this is the stage where abuse will escalate as the abuser attempts to reassert control. Legal Aid is massively restricted so there is little legal help available if you can't afford to find it yourself but don't meet the pitifully low income threshold for financial help. A flaw of the benefits system is that it forces women (because it's mainly women) to stay with their partner for financial reasons. Then there is the psychological side of it which is complex and difficult to overcome - of you have someone telling you that you're worthless, that you'll lose your children, that they'll spill your secrets and you'll lose your family/friends, that you'll be destitute, homeless, that you can't do better, etc then you're not going to have the self-esteem and confidence needed to go.

thecatsthecats · 04/04/2023 11:00

Ktime · 04/04/2023 09:49

Same old shit, making a woman responsible for a man’s behaviour.

I don't think it's that at all - OP isn't saying that Lily should change Jack. Just not date and marry him.

My own example is two women, if that helps.

I have a 'friend' who is very rude to lots of people - makes snarky comments about weight, looks, and her own superiority all the time.

She's also a lousy CF when it comes to pulling her weight in either money or tasks.

Whilst this woman isn't Hitler, I've outgrown her crappy behaviour and don't really want to spend time with her. But I have a mutual friend who is always trying to pull us together, and excuses her all the time.

The mutual friend totally babies this woman and expects me and others to pick up the slack, when most of us would happily not see her again.

The mutual friend is a 'good' person - but she's happy for the shit friend to be a rude freeloader to the rest of us.

By my lights, that makes her not that good.

aSofaNearYou · 04/04/2023 11:00

Or alternatively it might take a very nice person with poor boundaries to be duped into being with them?

Original poster
aplateandaspoon · 04/04/2023 11:00

KimberleyClark · 04/04/2023 09:52

No one is doing that. Asking why a woman stays with a shit man isn’t maki g her responsible for the fact he’s shit.

Show quote history

@KimberleyClark exactly, thank you!

OP posts:
NEmama · 04/04/2023 11:02

We've got a set of friends like this I just meet the lady for lunch without dh

Original poster
aplateandaspoon · 04/04/2023 11:08

I guess I see choosing a partner the same as choosing your friends, you usually surround yourself with people who share similar values with you. I could never fall in love with a homophobe, I would never be friends with one either.

I would think the same way if a "really nice guy" has friends who have abused women and he is aware of it it. He can be the nicest "perfect catch" guy, but if he sees his friend spiking a woman's drink and not doing anything about it I would stop thinking he is a nice guy.

I can imagine Jack could treat Lily really badly behind close doors, or he could treat her like a queen and everyone else like shit.

I think I would find it very hard to be with a partner who treats people like that, it would be a dealbreaker for me. That's why I find it so hard to get my head around that.

OP posts:
Iam4eels · 04/04/2023 11:35

Abusers and other horrible people don't walk around holding a sign and ringing their little "I'm a dickhead" bell so that everyone knows what they are. They show their best face to the world, it's only later that the mask starts to slip but by that point it's more tricky to leave.

Ktime · 04/04/2023 11:38

KimberleyClark · 04/04/2023 09:52

No one is doing that. Asking why a woman stays with a shit man isn’t maki g her responsible for the fact he’s shit.

Show quote history

But she is doing that. She is saying Jack is shit, ergo Lily is shit too. That’s making Lily responsible for his shitnessl

Ktime · 04/04/2023 11:39

aplateandaspoon · 04/04/2023 11:00

@KimberleyClark exactly, thank you!

Show quote history

At least own what you’re saying, OP.

Fairislefandango · 04/04/2023 11:47

Everything that @Chinuplippyon said. It's probably relatively easy for people with a stable upbringing, loving parents who modelled healthy relationships, and good mental health, to choose a good partner. I would once have automatically judged 'Lily' without question too, but the MN relationships board has educated me.

But she is doing that. She is saying Jack is shit, ergo Lily is shit too. That’s making Lily responsible for his shitnessl

No it isn't. Being responsible for Jack's shitness would mean that she caused it. The OP is only holding Lily responsible for staying in a relationship with someone like Jack, not holding her responsible for the fact that Jack's a bad person.

ladyofshertonabbas · 04/04/2023 11:51

Nice people get coerced into marrying arseholes. Tale as old as time.

Ktime · 04/04/2023 11:54

Fairislefandango · 04/04/2023 11:47

Everything that @Chinuplippyon said. It's probably relatively easy for people with a stable upbringing, loving parents who modelled healthy relationships, and good mental health, to choose a good partner. I would once have automatically judged 'Lily' without question too, but the MN relationships board has educated me.

But she is doing that. She is saying Jack is shit, ergo Lily is shit too. That’s making Lily responsible for his shitnessl

No it isn't. Being responsible for Jack's shitness would mean that she caused it. The OP is only holding Lily responsible for staying in a relationship with someone like Jack, not holding her responsible for the fact that Jack's a bad person.

The OP is only holding Lily responsible for staying in a relationship with someone like Jack, not holding her responsible for the fact that Jack's a bad person.

No, she isn’t. OP said ’I just think she cannot be a good person at all.’

This is making Lily responsible for Jack’s behaviour.

MarieRoseMarie · 04/04/2023 11:55

I don’t think it’s every case, but I think it’s a lot more cases than people are willing to admit. I’ve met a lot of women who are married to overt racists. These men were racist when they met and are openly and loudly racist.

These women like to play that they are liberals. Black Lives Matter type stuff.

These women married them anyway.

I ended all the relationships with these women including one where years later she came crawling back alleging abuse as if that would make up for it!

unsync · 04/04/2023 12:00

🙄 I suggest you do some research about abuse perpetrators, love bombing and trauma bonds. Surely you realise that abusers target their victims and that they are usually vulnerable in some way?

Antiquiteas · 04/04/2023 12:01

So you’re judging her because her husband is a cunt?

Women still being blamed for what men do. Brilliant.

SiSiG · 04/04/2023 12:02

I know a couple a bit like this. He’s greedy, manipulative, self-serving and generally the kind of person who’d drown his granny to stay afloat. She’s sweetness and light.

I’ve realised recently that they’re just good cop and bad cop. She benefits from his behaviour, and hers means they have an increased social circle and more people to rip off.

I don’t see either of them nowadays.

blahblahblahandblahsomemore · 04/04/2023 12:04

I don't know - one of my friends who is lovely has the vilest husband I've ever known. She just seems to be able separate his actions and behaviour from their marriage (if that makes sense).