To think this could solve teachers' problems

[NovemberRains]

Teachers want higher pay.

Their employers currently pay a whopping ~24% into a defined benefit pension scheme!

AIBU to think that a lot of their problems could be solved if they were just given the option to either continue as they are, or get a 20% pay increase and have a 4% employer contribution to a standard defined contribution pension scheme like the vast majority of the population get!

I respect teachers, but based on my knowledge when overall remuneration is considered including pension and holidays, they really aren't underpaid compared to other professions!

It's a similar story for other public sector professions!

@damnbratz - you are lucky to be able to take early retirement - I’m 56 and won’t be retiring for a long time yet.

I here you. I'm a decade behind, but stuck on UPS3.

When I first crossed threshold onto the UPS, it was all about proving you had the experience and additional skills gained from time served.

Now you are not paid more for your experience and how that wealth of knowledge can filter into younger teachers or benefit the children. You are paid for extra duties and responsibilities. That wasn't what it was supposed to be about. That is what TLR payments are for.

They get away with not giving out TLRs by piling those jobs onto UPS teachers in order to make them sing for their supper and justify their pay.

There is no incentive to be an excellent experienced teacher, because the workload increases to the point that you don't have the time or energy to use that acquired wisdom for your actual teaching.

It is bad for the pupils. They deserve to be taught day to day by teachers with some experience behind them, not passed between ECTs while the UPS teachers re-write another scheme of work, run the choir and go to more meetings about whatever accreditation badge the school is going to waste time and money on this year.

I can't not care, and believe me I've tried. I see kids in front of me who deserve an education, and deserve a future. But because they are not rich, they aren't getting one. My colleagues (who are left) keep doing our best, but I can't teach French or Art, and my English teaching friends can't do physics justice, so the kids get a raw deal. It's not fair and it's not the country I want to live in. You're supposed to become more right wing as you get older, but I'm going v v far the other way.

This year I’m teaching A-level psychology (only have an A-level in it myself) and Performing Arts (never studied it, not even a GCSE). I surviving by not caring.

You are being very naive if you think that strategy would ‘sort’ the recruitment and retention issues in education!

I don't work in a school anymore. I found myself a niche in education because I got so burnt out and fed up.

But I visit a lot of schools and have working relationships with a lot of teachers.

Those who care can't carry on. I've seen so many in tears in the last year. Lots go off with stress. It always seems to be the best ones.

Others cruise along ticking boxes and not really caring too deeply. They survive. They are not the ones I want teaching my children, though.

But we've drifted off topic.

Because it is pretty clear that no, pensions are not the answer. You know how it works now. Spread the word. There is so much misinformation.

YABU OP.

Seriously.

@Janedoe82 I'm in a profession you refer to. You don't speak for me. Or anyone I work with. None of us are happily going with the flow; we are all frustrated, constrained and tired, but unfortunately we don't have a professional culture of collectivism like teachers do. I'm also a parent of school age DC. I support teachers.

I once worked it out with my ex his work in industry - against me as a teacher.
when we worked out my hours and deducted overtime off my holiday - I was minus 4 weeks holiday.

if you serious think a teacher does a 45 hour week - I don’t know which teachers you know.

I’m on holiday today and I’ve just marked some year 12 papers, I have contacted 4 parents by email. That’s my holiday I still have a scheme of work to write and have just arranged to go into work next week.

I am normally in work by 7 am - I leave at 5. I often get up at 3 am to work for 4 hours before I leave for work.

I have reports to write.

weekends and holidays are for work planning and marking

@lifeissweet I suspect that spreading misinformation is rather the point, unfortunately.

No it wouldn't solve the issue at all.
How could it. Besides the strikes are about much more than pay. They are just as much about conditions and overall funding for teh sector

People always say this but in my experience it's not true. I've had a different career and know many teachers who have also career changed. The point about is choosing it is the current pay isn't what we chose - it's not kept pace with inflation or with private sector pay increases (and no I'm not finding the link because it's been on multiple other threads but I'm sure you can Google if you're bothered).

My DD is 28, has got the same degree class as me and earns 10K more than I ever did as a HOD. She works 36 hours a week. No overtime, no additional hours.
I worked on average 55 hours a week in school and 5 hours at the weekend. For 39 weeks a year. Plus at lease 8 hours every half term, 16 hours at Christmas and Easter and 48 hours in the summer holidays. Calculating it as an 8 hour day, that equates to 43.5 weeks a year. Leaving 8.5 weeks. We get paid for 39 weeks a year only. I think I deserved far more pay than I received compared to those in the private sector.

And for that miserly recompense I got to deal with abusive children, abusive parents - who frankly were far worse than their children - and being observed / monitored / checked up on every bloody week! I never got to have a cheap holiday in term time, never got to watch my children in their nativity plays / sports days / assemblies. So forgive me if I dare to disagree, but you have no fucking idea…

There are only 2 of us from my teaching course who are still in teaching and we have more than 25 years to go before retirement age. All of the others left as they quickly grasped the fact that other jobs with equivalent or higher pay were far less stressful.

@Peggottythecat I'm taking a big hit to retire early. Fortunately I've just paid off the mortgage, have some inheritance and I have had no career breaks. I took on my niece on an SGO when she was little and had infertility myself which resulted in no biological children. So I decided, when I had medical issues this winter, that I couldnt carry on working 60 hour weeks and decided to put myself first.

That wouldn't even scratch the surface of solving the problem.
Pay is not the only issue.

Workload is a huge issue. Teachers work the most unpaid overtime of any profession.

Funding is the issue. Schools cannot afford heating and glue sticks let alone proper staffing levels and SEN support. Current "offers" from the government were rejected for being unfunded. Schools CANNOT afford to pay teachers increases from existing budgets.

Lack of SEN support is an issue because it leads to staff support being taken away from other children, SEN children not having proper support/resourcing, poor behaviour which impacts everyone etc.

Teacher retention is an issue. The pay which repeatedly falls year on year due to inflation, the insane unpaid overtime, the workload, the feeling that the lack of support and funding means even your best isn't good enough, all means teachers are leaving the profession in droves and they government aren't recruiting to keep up. The fact that school holidays (whilst a perk) are not as much as people think. We work 5 days of them as inset. We don't get the 10 bank holidays. And our holidays are UNPAID. Despite them being unpaid, things like report writing, planning, data, preparing classrooms and displays etc all happen over the holidays so even though unpaid, we still work a considerable amount during them. We don't have any option to take leave ever, so family wedding, tough. Term time holiday, no chance. Most teachers then can't afford holidays in school hols as its too expensive.
My DH works in the private sector and he actually (thanks to flexi time, time in lieu, compressed hours, generous leave entitlements, Bank Holidays etc) actually gets MORE leave than I do 🤷 AND he is free to take it whenever he wants AND it's paid!

Teachers are now so stretched they regularly work through lunch and can't even go to the toilet during the day which means you are careful not to drink too much. I know of 5 teacher friends who have all had issues with UTIs and/or kidney problems because of this.

Please educate yourselves.
We are not fighting to be rich ffs. We are fighting to get education properly funded. To get children the support and opportunities they deserve. To plan lessons based on the best learning outcomes, not "What can I do with the minimum resources I have and no budget to get anything else?" To give SEN children proper support, to stop the situation where increasingly classes are being taught by unqualified staff, or staff who don't specialise in that subject. Good staff keep leaving because they can't watch it keep deteriorating.

It really is about so much more than pay. The education system is failing your children and we need support to change that.

It’s happening. Believe me. I hope you feel confident enough to teach any children you have GCSE levels in their chosen subjects. Also, that you don’t worry to much about the size of their classes and how many supply teachers etc they have at anyone time. My children are primary age currently and I worry massively about who will teach them in a few years time and what their school experience will be.

Well - that's a lot of slagging me off and very little addressing my actual post! Which was intended to be a genuine question as when mentioned to my teacher friend also agreed it would contribute to a solution!!!

Have a nice evening all, try not to cry so much about your rough deal when their are millions in many professions who are suffering, just don't have a union available to help them strike

@NovemberRains loads of posters have addressed your points. Scroll back.

And which professions don't have a union? Everyone is entitled to join a union. I was in a generic union when I was a cleaner, for example, and I'm in a specific one now I'm in a profession.

@NovemberRains and I hope you are up for teaching your own kids. As there won't be teachers to do so. Unless you can afford private ?
We've explained how the pension thing is a non starter. Please practice your reading skills and do some comprehension practice before returning. 1/10 for effort.

I'm point is that 95% of the thread now ignores my point as everybody has got a little bit wound up and are now making very bold (and incorrect) assumptions about my views and personal life 🤣

How have you got through life not having met a teacher? It's incredible. Teachers will tell you that what they enjoy about their job is the teaching. You surely don't think it's the marking?

I have been in teaching 30 years, worked full time (60hrs +)for the whole of my career, did 20 years in the state sector and the last 10 in the private sector. I am on the SLT but have never earned over 42K.

We are currently being threatened with coming out of TPS. Our employer will pay a maximum of 19% (rather than 23.68%) into a new pension scheme and we will be required to pay 10% (rather than 8.5%)... so basically a 6% pay cut.

As a school we are full to capacity, but still cannot afford the TPS. We have been warned that if Labour bring in VAT on school fees we may lose many pupils and the school would struggle to stay open. In the last few years 2 local prep schools closed over the summer holiday, leading to mass panic from both parents and staff who had no idea and did not see it coming. Suddenly 200 children needed to find school places and 30 staff new jobs. Imagine this under Labour's plans happening tenfold... only the most elite private schools surviving.

I love my job and love teaching. However, I cannot see my career lasting beyond the next 5 years.

I did say upthread that I’m happy to give up my pension and the pay rise. I’ve been teaching 23 years now and am jaded. Haven’t got the energy to retrain so will just muddle along and not care.