To think this could solve teachers' problems

[NovemberRains]

Teachers want higher pay.

Their employers currently pay a whopping ~24% into a defined benefit pension scheme!

AIBU to think that a lot of their problems could be solved if they were just given the option to either continue as they are, or get a 20% pay increase and have a 4% employer contribution to a standard defined contribution pension scheme like the vast majority of the population get!

I respect teachers, but based on my knowledge when overall remuneration is considered including pension and holidays, they really aren't underpaid compared to other professions!

It's a similar story for other public sector professions!

lots of teachers can't afford the pension currently

Don’t feed the trolls. They just want to wind people up and are succeeding. There is no point arguing with people who don’t have a scrap of understanding about the current situation and reasons behind teacher strikes

but just decide collectively they don’t care what grade their school gets in ofsted.

It doesn’t work like that. If schools fail their Ofsted, if often involves the head losing their job, the governor body resigning and the school being turned into an academy or assimilated into a large MAT which changes the school beyond belief. It can’t be collectively ignored.

@Iamnotthe1 yes agreed. VAT on school fees is a massive threat to the sector and will likely mean it becomes far more elitist than it currently is. Many independent schools will likely close with a massive knock on effect on state schools. I’m not a Tory voter but think Labour have hog this completely wrong.

@Shinyandnew1 surely that’s the point of collectivism, in that the government can’t sack all of them if everyone gives up, and it’s a bit defeatist to assume that they would automatically get inadquate if teachers used their expertise to deliver the curriculum in the least bureaucratic way possible.

so how do you explain that for much of my career I have been taking home less them the minimum wage per hour?

I have been a teacher and a TA, and earnt more per hour as a TA

Your maths is way out

Teachers whinge so much.. every job is stressful! Just don't be a teacher then..

<slow handclap> Well yes, that's what's happening. People are choosing not to become teachers. And the people who chose to become teachers are quitting. How well do you think that's working out for schools and kids?

@Hollyhead they might have your support but they don't have the governments. If OFSTED say you're rubbish (on the 2 days they visit) the head, and some of SLT, lose their jobs. Schools are forced into academy groups run by profitable organisations.

I love the 'if don't like it then leave' approach. Many are. Just like doctors. If we didn't care about kids education (or the NHS), we'd all jump ship and earn more money for less hours elsewhere. Because we care, we fight. Telling a teacher they are unaware of CAHMS issues is an utter joke. I've had students who have had to actually attempt suicide before they were seen. Otherwise the wait list is 6 years. And who is picking up the pieces in that time ? Schools.

As a parent, I want my kids taught by specialist, experienced staff who have sufficient downtime to be able to devote energy and enthusiasm to the job. As a patient, I want to be treated in a timely manner by healthcare practitioners who are not exhausted and burned out. Decent pay, sensible workload and holidays are crucial to retaining good staff. Healthcare and education are of incredible importance im society. People like the OP and those on the thread arguing to give teachers/doctors/nurses less in a race to the bottom, to make their jobs as unrewarding and painful as the worst of any job, to relentlessly erode their conditions and reputation are arguing for the total collapse of society. They are cheering the Tories on in their final smash-and-grab, their last raid on the economy, their disaster-capitalism drive that will leave every one of us worse off by every imaginable measure. And why? This government only want to further enrich the already enormously wealthy and to take away every public service that has made your life worth living. There is an immense crisis in education and healthcare, and campaigning to make careers in both worse than they currently are will make that crisis irrecoverable. That's exactly what the Tory government wants. Well done for hastening it along, OP.

Labour have it massively wrong. I can't help thinking education is fucked either way, only slightly less so under Labour. I wish there was a viable party with a decent vision for education.

Teachers aren't paid for all the holidays- 10 montys wages are stretched out over the 12 months which is misleading

@Janedoe82 where do you think it's coming from? The same place the government gets its from for anything else. Like when it gave millions to its cronies for ppe that had to be ditched when it was shit. Or the £££thousands given to mps for their energy bill to keep the horses warm in their stables. If you want to wring your hands about this government and their expenditure I'd start there if I were you.

Totally agree with your statement. However the trouble is that the government WILL run it into the ground as it’s easy pickings. (Or low hanging fruit to steal from another thread.)
I’m another teacher who has worked 8.30-4.00 today, and will again tomorrow, during my holidays to try and keep up. In my husband’s secondary school, 25% of the teaching staff have handed in their notice this term and on many occasions not one person has turned up for interview when attempting to replace the leavers.

I’ve been unavoidably off sick (in hospital) for 2 weeks and I empathise given we’re running up to GCSEs, but parents complaining is just adding to my stress. More fool me for looking at work emails, but I’d otherwise have hundreds to look at/react to after a fortnight.

At the last Parents’ Evening, one teacher was (gently) reminding a mum that her darling boy had generated multiple calls/detentions and still hadn’t pulled up his socks. Apparently, this was the teacher’s fault (for caring enough to call?!) and mum was going to complain to the head. We can’t win. As previously mentioned, it isn’t really the kids that cause the stress (well, in schools where behaviour is an issue, obviously it is).

Well quite.

Dh has only ever been a solicitor.
Does this mean he can't be interested in protecting his own pay and conditions?

My friends only ever been a hospital doctor. Presumably she can't be interested in her own pay and conditions either.

What about the other striking groups? If some employees have only ever done that job does it mean they can't be involved and interested in protecting their own employment pay aabd conditions?

What about teachers who have had another job before? Are they allowed to be interested?

It's a daft argument and one that appears to only ever be directed towards teachers.

It's amazing that there was £7 billion ready to be used to bail out a bank a few weeks ago (not needed in the end as HSBC bought it for £1 - and then paid its directors millions in bonuses 🤷‍♀️).
If we want decent education and healthcare we need to fund the people who provide it. Or they will indeed leave. 80% of 5th year medical students are looking at moving abroad. Loads of my younger teaching colleagues are applying for jobs abroad. If you want teachers to stay then they need to be able to afford to live in this country, and have time for their sun families.

The 23% employer contribution pays the pension to of current retired teachers. It is in massive deficit..cutting the rate to 4% would mean no money to pay the pensions now!

The TPS is not in massive deficit as it’s unfunded.

That isn’t a problem with teachers though, it’s a problem with other professions rolling over and letting the government shaft them.

But yes today’s contributions are paying today’s pensioners. Defined benefit schemes are totally unaffordable and need to change.

Imagine being so bitter you name change to create a goady post about something you don't understand. It’s just ridiculously immature.

I'm a teacher that's out. 33 years, too old and worn out so at 55 I'm taking early retirement. I could also see the writing on the wall with being UPS3 and the most expensive member of teaching staff bar SLT. I feel I would have been managed out in the next year as suddenly everything I did wasn't good enough. Friday was my last day. I'm very, very sad to be leaving teaching but now they can employ a shiny new ECT for half my salary. However, for the first time I'm not working on the first day of the holidays!

Have taught 23 years. Do not give a shit anymore. My pay is stagnant, take my pension off me … do what you want but I guarantee the more you pay me less, the more I will care less in the classroom.

Had the OP been back? I call Tory bot, DM journalist … but my let comment still stands. Those of you who care don’t get riled up in your hols.

*last