To think this could solve teachers' problems

[NovemberRains]

Teachers want higher pay.

Their employers currently pay a whopping ~24% into a defined benefit pension scheme!

AIBU to think that a lot of their problems could be solved if they were just given the option to either continue as they are, or get a 20% pay increase and have a 4% employer contribution to a standard defined contribution pension scheme like the vast majority of the population get!

I respect teachers, but based on my knowledge when overall remuneration is considered including pension and holidays, they really aren't underpaid compared to other professions!

It's a similar story for other public sector professions!

I don't even have any friends who work in the UK education system, so no stake in this, but even I can see that it's not a race to the bottom. It's a bit pathetic if your best argument is that other people have it harder.

YABU. You try being a teacher for a week and see how you get on.

I agree!

Fucking genius OP - how odd no-one else has thought of that.

just don't have a union available to help them strike
Only the Police and military that I can think of.
In any case it's not a race to see who can get the worst deal.

No. The strikes are about pay and conditions. Work load, work life balance, staffing, recruitment, Ofsted etc etc

@NovemberRains I disagree. There have been a huge number of detailed replies that have gone unacknowledged. You've insulted and goaded a lot of people, and continue to do so, so you can't really expect people think you're coming from a good place, can you?

The 24% into the pension is only a small part of the actual cost/value.

https://www.ft.com/content/9d9b03d0-55ff-4e2a-8ec7-2caab0a89381

You got the answer ages ago, @NovemberRains

Within the state sector (including academies), it's a paper exercise. The money never actually goes anywhere, it's just numbers on a spreadsheet. There is no pot: it just goes back to the treasury and the treasury pays the pension. The current total pension being paid out is less than the total contributions so all remaining money stays with the treasury.

It's why the IMF said that teacher pensions were actually self-funding.

So your teacher friend doesn't know how their own pension works.

Nothing more to say on that, is there?

and are only contracted to work 32.5 hours a week. Yes- they have to do more than that, but it is still less than most full time people.

Janedoe82 - when I working full-time as a teacher, I brought work home with me four nights a week and I worked a day of every weekend during term time. Teacher work far far longer hours than their contracted hours. That was the norm.

I've never been a teacher but I know many. I'm over 60 and honestly there is not another profession that people poke at constantly. Everyone has an opinion, everyone could do the job better, everyone thinks teachers are lazy lefties. Go and walk a mile in their shoes. The profession is on its knees.

The contract is actually 32.5 hours directed plus any additional hours required

It's actually open-ended.

If we worked to rule and only worked our directed time, we'd be in breach of both teacher standards and our contracts.

My husband is a teacher and works in education, but not in a state school. He contributes to a nest pension 4% and so does his employer, as the OP suggests. He has been paying is 7 years and his pension is worth a grand total of £600 a year. That would not even cover our council tax for 2 month, never mind have enough to live off!

His 18 years paying into the TPS gives him 12k per year. However leaving 'teaching' saved his sanity. He is much happier in his education role and still works with young people everyday.

Similar to nurses , they're not just striking about pay.
They are striking about conditions and the effect on children.

Most teachers have no idea what they'll get for their pension from the Trachers Pension Scheme. A few will opt out but not many and with auto enroll every 3 years they get swept in.

But consider being a reception or KS1 teacher at 67 or 68? Sitting on the floor, running around after 30 4, 5 or 5 year olds or teaching secondary PE or....- hell. That's why you need to pay into a pension that will enable you to retire earlier.

@Teentaxidriver my 0.6 teaching job took 36 hours last week. Fucks sake

But there is a union available to help them.

Unite

HTH 👍

That’s about 10 years of tps. 12k is impressive for the years worked!

You do Realise that it’s cheaper for the employer to pay 20% into a pension rather than to pay it to the employee? And that when that teacher claims their pension they will pay tax on the pension amount and not be able to claim state benefits? So it’s actually better for the tax payer. Public sector pensions are now pretty crap- employee contributions are often about 10-12%, they’re not final salary and they cant be claimed until state retirement age (68 or whatever it goes up to). Clearly if you die earlier from overwork you’re not getting any benefit. I’d definitely take
the 20% raise but it’s not going to
happen because that would cost the tax payer a lot more

I don't think the employer does pay it though. The govt does. I teach in a private school and we left the TPS a few years ago because the school couldn't afford the increased contributions that the govt started paying for state schools. So most schools are not paying the pension contribution and therefore couldn't just transfer it to salary. Unless I'm misunderstanding how the contributions get paid in the state sector. I only did my NQT year in state then went straight into private so it seems like two whole different worlds to me.

The strikes, despite what is published in the media, are about pay reflecting conditions.

The pay offer is unfunded, meaning it will come from schools’ existing deficit budgets, so conditions will worsen as other things are cut, e.g. TAs to deal with behaviour issues.

As an aside, I love the idea that teachers have to do ‘some more’ on top of 32.5 hours per week. 9 hours in school per day for me, plus 3 additional hours each evening after the children are in bed.

I don’t actually think my pay is terrible, despite living in the SE, but for the conditions it absolutely is and our children deserve better than exhausted, overstretched teachers.

The last pay rise was unfunded. Next academic year, this money will come out of existing budgets. It totals £3,000,000 for my trust. Bye TAs, bye specialist provision, bye resources.... it's a huge funding cut for CHILDREN.

Yes I agree. Teachers are actually paid pretty well once you take their pensions into account

*I know so many teachers who don't lift a pen during the holidays.

You can go above and beyond with any job. Just choose not to!*

Ohhhhhh you are so clever. 'Just choose not to.' Yes, it's absolutely my fault for choosing to do work in the school holidays. It must be because I want to spent less time with my own kids - nothing to do with the fact that the workload is absolutely bonkers and impossible to manage in term time.

In all seriousness, you do realise that teachers are only allocated 6 minutes to plan, resource and assess each lesson they teach, don't you??

Public sector pensions are extremely generous teachers being one of the most generous. the fact the scheme is now career average - it’s still by far one of the most generous pensions on offer

It’s not cheaper for them to pay the 20% gross into a pension than 20% gross into a pension scheme. It’s exactly the same cost to the employer.

My school left the TPS 4 years ago.
We also get paid 9% less than the state sector along the road.
I love being a teacher but the recent strikes have really opened my eyes