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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Aibu to think that the most successful kids in schools are the ones with money pumped into extracurriculars & camps?

273 replies

Imarealwoman · 03/04/2023 11:03

In the dc's school the dc in the top sets are the ones who do expensive extracurriculars outside school eg piano, dancing, horse riding, swimming lessons, Spanish etc..
They stay after school for the baking or yoga clubs. It's Easter & the top set kids all seem to be doing expensive camps next week & some gone skiing this week.
Aibu to think one needs to have the money to pump into your child in order to have a high performer?

OP posts:
CurlewKate · 03/04/2023 22:33

Another thing. Being poor is hard work, exhausting and demotivating. It's hard to search out free activities when you're already searching out the cheapest food and struggling to keep your home warm and dry. And it's hard to go to activities when you don't have a car, or enough spare money to buy a your kid a hot chocolate after swimming like the others. It's complex and nuanced.

SkankingWombat · 03/04/2023 22:33

ColonelBrandonsPiano · 03/04/2023 13:30

Why is piano always cited as an expensive extra-curricular? Or is our teacher massively undercharging? 30 minutes a week for £13. I know this will increase to more tuition time as they increase through the grades but surely this is no more expensive than swimming or any other class? Exam fees possibly yearly.

It is a lot more than swimming sessions, particularly if they move beyond the basics. My DDs swim with a club. DD1 currently trains for 3hrs/wk costing £38/month. That's £1.41 per 30 mins based on 4.5 weeks in a month, and will reduce further as her hours increase (although overall monthly cost will go up, of course). DD2 does 1hr/wk, working out at £2.67 per 30 mins in the pool. Even when they were starting out and had to do the standard Swim England 'Learn to Swim' sessions at the local leisure centre, it worked out at £7.11 for 30 mins.
I suspect the costs on top of lessons/training are similar for both swimming and piano however, when taken to a high standard and added up over the years: instrument (and maintenance), sheet music, concerts vs equipment, tech suits, competitions.

They also do karate at £4.44/hr and Beavers/Cubs at around £4 a session (DH deals with that, so not sure of exact numbers), which are again much cheaper than music lessons.

Dobby123456 · 03/04/2023 22:34

CurlewKate · 03/04/2023 17:37

Also £13 for a 13 minute piano lesson once a week may not seek a lot, but for some people that's more than the spare money they have for the entire family. And that's one child. And you're not going to get far if you don't have a piano to practice on.

Paying off the piano was a big chunk of money every month for a year. Now it's due for turning...

Doone21 · 03/04/2023 22:41

Stupid and pointless worry because high performance at school does not equal the same at uni or success or happiness in life. It's just exams.
My kid is in top set with no money spent on extras but he works hard. Puts the effort in. I don't care about his results anyway, just that he can cope with life.

Original poster
Imarealwoman · 03/04/2023 23:14

ColonelBrandonsPiano · 03/04/2023 13:30

Why is piano always cited as an expensive extra-curricular? Or is our teacher massively undercharging? 30 minutes a week for £13. I know this will increase to more tuition time as they increase through the grades but surely this is no more expensive than swimming or any other class? Exam fees possibly yearly.

25 quid for half an hour in my area, my nieces go. 50 quid for the hour for both.

OP posts:
Makesense12 · 03/04/2023 23:19

You honestly can't make a high achiever op.
They are born with it.

We are just the caretakers. We give the opportunity or snatch it away or our education system hobbles bright children by locking them out.

You can't make them, we can caretaker them and support them.

Changeau · 03/04/2023 23:27

I'm loving the competitive under extra-curricular on this thread.

Tryphenia · 03/04/2023 23:37

Changeau · 03/04/2023 23:27

I'm loving the competitive under extra-curricular on this thread.

I think people don’t like other people saying that all that time and money ‘pumped into’ a child isn’t key to making him/her a ‘high performer’.

Changeau · 03/04/2023 23:42

Tryphenia · 03/04/2023 23:37

I think people don’t like other people saying that all that time and money ‘pumped into’ a child isn’t key to making him/her a ‘high performer’.

Show quote history

I don't think most parents think taking their kids to ballet and swimming is going to get them into Oxbridge. They do it because their kids enjoy it. Of course, this is Mumsnet, which has more than its fair share of insular parents.

OnBoardTheHeartOfGold · 03/04/2023 23:44

I don't think anyone is denying time, but that you don't need to pump a lot of money into it.

Tryphenia · 04/04/2023 00:01

Changeau · 03/04/2023 23:42

I don't think most parents think taking their kids to ballet and swimming is going to get them into Oxbridge. They do it because their kids enjoy it. Of course, this is Mumsnet, which has more than its fair share of insular parents.

Show quote history

Well, you’d hope so, but the thrust of the OP was that you ‘pump’ time and money into extracurriculars for your child to get them into ‘top sets’.

hellsbells99 · 04/04/2023 00:44

There is a connection between music and maths so taking instrument lessons may help develop the maths part of the brain

Nimbostratus100 · 04/04/2023 01:05

CurlewKate · 03/04/2023 22:33

Another thing. Being poor is hard work, exhausting and demotivating. It's hard to search out free activities when you're already searching out the cheapest food and struggling to keep your home warm and dry. And it's hard to go to activities when you don't have a car, or enough spare money to buy a your kid a hot chocolate after swimming like the others. It's complex and nuanced.

cars are a luxury in many places, and kids dont need them if you live somewhere with public transport

JudgeRudy · 04/04/2023 01:08

I'd imagine they get the best exam results and probably find uni life easier because they don't need to work etc however I'm not sure if they are more successful in the long run.
You'd need to define successful too. There's plenty of kids pushed into careers they're ill suited for.

user1477391263 · 04/04/2023 05:39

We should try carrying out a RCT where we assign kids from deprived backgrounds in certain areas to take part in paid-for extra-curriculars, then compared their academic outcomes against kids in similar areas where no intervention took place.

My hunch is that it might improve their academic performances just a tiny bit (by encouraging confidence and some soft skills like resilience or delaying gratification etc.), but would not have any particular transformative effect on their scores in maths, English, history, geography, science or anything else.

In general, domain expertise tends not to be very transferrable; the evidence is that learning music (for example) has no real impact on attainment in other areas, including maths (contrary to what a lot of people believe).

That doesn't mean it would be a complete waste of time, as it might well be good for physical and mental health, reducing screentime, and just be a wonderful experience for kids.

But if the aim is "improve scores in maths, English, history, geography, science," then you need to do other things.

Crispymandm · 04/04/2023 06:17

Nimbostratus100 · 03/04/2023 11:21

too much screen time and gaming is what holds children back emotionally and academically, sticking a kid on an ipad at the table aged 3...... of course those children are not developing vocabulary, awareness, personal skills, understanding, etc

I don’t think it’s that black and white, my son is the youngest in year 5, and often comes straight home onto his Xbox (especially in the winter months. He is greater depth throughout despite been at 71% attendance and doing no extra curriculars. Each child is so different it’s never going to be a one size fits all.

Nimbostratus100 · 04/04/2023 06:21

Crispymandm · 04/04/2023 06:17

I don’t think it’s that black and white, my son is the youngest in year 5, and often comes straight home onto his Xbox (especially in the winter months. He is greater depth throughout despite been at 71% attendance and doing no extra curriculars. Each child is so different it’s never going to be a one size fits all.

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but personal development is impeded, and that shows up at secondary school

Crispymandm · 04/04/2023 06:34

Are you speaking from experience? I’d argue that his Xbox is very social, he is often the peacemaker between his friends squabbles, and speaks to a large number of children through it. Surley once they hit secondary school they are able to go and socialise with more freedoms? If you hate screen time so much would you say no phone for teens and adults also?

Nimbostratus100 · 04/04/2023 06:54

Crispymandm · 04/04/2023 06:34

Are you speaking from experience? I’d argue that his Xbox is very social, he is often the peacemaker between his friends squabbles, and speaks to a large number of children through it. Surley once they hit secondary school they are able to go and socialise with more freedoms? If you hate screen time so much would you say no phone for teens and adults also?

yes, I am speaking from experience, of knowing hundreds of teens, and being able to predict fairly accurately which have been sopped with screens for much of their lives - it shows in their personal development, as I said.

Idtotallybangdreamoftheendlessnotgonnalie · 04/04/2023 07:28

My kid sucks academically, she does fuckloads of sport because that's where her talents and self esteem lie. If she didn't have anything outside of school she wouldn't have anything.

Puppalicious · 04/04/2023 08:07

Nimbostratus100 · 04/04/2023 06:54

yes, I am speaking from experience, of knowing hundreds of teens, and being able to predict fairly accurately which have been sopped with screens for much of their lives - it shows in their personal development, as I said.

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How do you know what is happening in each teens home life? Surely a bit of confirmation bias here.

Changeau · 04/04/2023 08:23

I wouldn't be comfortable with my year 5 child doing nothing but Xbox after school but then sport is a big thing in our family. I don't mind a bit of gaming - dd is 20 and still plays Lego HP when stressed - but everything in balance!

RudsyFarmer · 04/04/2023 08:25

I do think screens are detrimental to children’s development in excess. My kids are on screens but not in the week. Weekend and holidays only and only around other activities. They get glassy eyes and foggy heads when they’re gaming too long and feel like shit. So I wouldn’t want them on them all day.

Yerroblemom1923 · 04/04/2023 08:27

Absolutely what @PetitPorpoise said. It's parental interest in their children and their investment in them, not necessarily money but time spent with them.
The biggest influence on a child's intellect is the mother and her level of academic achievement.
We are far from rich but I'm happy to be a bit thifty if it means my dd can go to after school sports' clubs, overseas school trips, cookery classes, D of E etc as I know those are enriching for her, it widens her social circle, she learns new skills and enjoys it.
From a young age, when we were really skint, I took her to any baby/ toddler group going (usually free), or we'd visit the library (again free) etc etc
Anyway my point is it's parents that are invested and interested in ensuring their kids have the motivation and aspiration to do well that end up in the top sets.

Newmumatlast · 04/04/2023 08:34

At my school, a standard state, a lot of the kids who did well academically did no or little extra curricular stuff even the free clubs in school. They probably did well academically because all they focused on was school. There were of course also kids who did well academically who did alot of clubs, free or otherwise, and also those who didn't do well who did clubs (and who didn't). I did do free clubs and also paid for ones and actually a lot of the kids I knew at the sports clubs I was involved in didn't do above average academically to the point there was surprise when it was discovered that I was going to a good university after school. I wouldn't stress about it.