Aibu to think that the most successful kids in schools are the ones with money pumped into extracurriculars & camps?

[Imarealwoman]

In the dc's school the dc in the top sets are the ones who do expensive extracurriculars outside school eg piano, dancing, horse riding, swimming lessons, Spanish etc..
They stay after school for the baking or yoga clubs. It's Easter & the top set kids all seem to be doing expensive camps next week & some gone skiing this week.
Aibu to think one needs to have the money to pump into your child in order to have a high performer?

And the biggest effect (apart from genetics and environment) is how parents, and wider society, values a particular accomplishment

This is a ridiculous bombastic statement

Really? You honestly reckon the parents at the school gates are completely ambivalent about whether their kids are learning the cello or binge-watching Netflix? I mean, sure, some probably don't care, and some might even make a virtue out of necessity, but you can't honestly believe that every activity is of equal status - either objectively, or subjectively in the eyes of others? There's nothing wrong with anyone relaxing or enjoying their leisure in any way that makes them happy, but not every pastime correlates as strongly with top-set level "high performance" (the topic of this thread).

Not particularly bugged by fencing or equestrian sports, either - it was just an example. Used fives and lacrosse and alpine skiing upthread. Could have used water polo, or beagling, or sailing, or modern pentathlon I suppose, just to mix it up. Not aiming to trigger anyone who might be a touch sensitive about any one in particular.

I don't really understand your point tbh - something about posh kids playing lacrosse thinking they are good at things?

Good grief - it's in the thread title!

"Aibu to think one needs to have the money to pump into your child in order to have a high performer"

Having money - pumping into child - having high performer

It's a way of thinking that defines 'high performer' as an outcome achieved by things that money can buy. Which also implies it is something that is unlikely to be achieved by people without money to invest. (Which was the OPs lament) And when you critically analyse the types of activities that are so decribed, it is very often something that doesn't require quite so much effort to succeed in as more widely accessible and cheaper alternative activities. Mummy's credit card is doing a lot of the heavy lifting. And there is an entire industry marketing this philosophy to parents and perpetuating the myths it is built on.

Any posh kid that plays lacrosse will say they do it because they love it, but won't ever acknowledge that it's also rather useful not to have to admit that they wouldn't get a look-in at the local town's football team and have never set foot in an inner-city boxing gym. Better to pad their CV with trophies such as the School Challenge Cup - a national trophy competed for by just 8 schools. But yeah ... it's just "something about posh kids playing lacrosse thinking they are good at things"

My Ds is in all the top sets( now in year 10) this is though his own hard work and dedication. He does none of the things in the OP and we haven't been on holiday in years. He does free extracurricular in school, sport and music but everybody in the high school can do these clubs. When it comes down to it it's the dedication from the child.

The discussion isn't necessarily about bright children though, it's about success and if extracurriculars can improve the chances. Many bright DCs will fail to reach anywhere near their potential for a variety of reasons, and conversely many mediocre DCs will end up doing very well despite few discernible talents (Boris, anyone?). Obviously parental involvement, a stable homelife, wealth and social connections make a huge difference, but do skiing trips or clarinet lessons and if so, which activities are the most beneficial?
I would say piano lessons add social capital as well as skills like perseverance and dedication. By learning to play the piano, you learn about classical music. You recognise pieces of music, and can name them. You are familiar with various composers. This then becomes another strand that allows you to fit in amongst other professionals and identifies you as part of the 'right' tribe.

You sound completely ridiculous.

My parents never had money to put me through anything and I’m leading a department at 30, earning more than I ever imagined, more than my hard working parents ever did. I am successful, have a great work-family balance and I love what I do. It’s about the values you teach your kids, nothing else.

@Imarealwoman I tend to find out what the DC will be studying in the curriculum and plan breaks around it. I know you said outside the UK but we have loads here too.

History is easy. Ancient Greeks: British Museum and mainland Greece (Athens, Delphi and Olympia). Romans: Bath, the British Museum, St Albans, Rome. Ancient Egyptians: the British Museum (it has everything [:o]), Cairo, Luxor. Mayans: the Yucatan peninsula. Tudors: Hampton Court, Hever Castle, Weald and Downland Living Museum. Stone Age: Stonehenge...

Geography is also a fun one. Volcanos: anywhere with a volcano. The Natural History Museum in London has a great section on volcanos and earthquakes. The DC happened to be studying the rainforest at the same time so we took them to Costa Rica: rainforest, loads of volcanos and they loved the natural hot springs. Nicaragua is a good day trip from Costa Rica to see inside a volcano crater and peer at the magma.

France is easy for language trips. We're going to Normandy in May and Morzine for the language course next year.

what? lacrosse has been played in the local sink comps for decades, generations, in fact. The only people I personally know who have ever played lacrosse have played it in comps

piano may be a good skill to have in may ways, not least for personal development, but in reality it doesnt compare to the "social capital" that football endows

No, the correlation is more likely to be highly intelligent parents getting well paid jobs and good degrees go on to have highly intelligent children. These people value education and take a good deal of interest in it and their DC.

Putting your child in a ballet class won’t make them stop set for maths. What does boost their chances is having parents who are attuned to children’s development and the things you can do to boost chances.

If you can afford it, children should be given great opportunities. If you can’t, don’t worry. You can join a library for free, go on nature walks and point out flora and fauna for free, go to church and the national museums and galleries for free, read books for free, exercise in parks for free. No excuse for not doing some of these things.

*top

while it is true that it doesn't have to be ballet itself, and there are many free alternatives, I would say that being put in a ballet dress might actually help with maths!

Confidence, resilience, perseverance, concentration, pride, deferred gratification, teamwork, self control etc can all be taught through ballet, and have an impact on learning maths

Of course, it isn't just the ballet, but the parents involvement in the ballet, as in encouragement and support, rather than just paying for the costumes and the lessons, that does this.

And it doesn't have to be ballet, any number of free or cheap sports and activities will do the same job

I think the ones who have loads of extra curricular activities are probably those with ambitious/ pushy parents, so there is a probably bit of a correlation. That said, I know so many high achievers who this wasn't the case for. My friendship group at school all did well. None of us hugely affluent, no piano lessons, or horseriding lessons. I once read somewhere that the biggest indicator of a child's success is the number of books in their home.

Just to say my kid is in a "fancy" camp this week (only fancy as it's slightly more expensive than other options and has a better range of activities). But that's because I'm working. I would much rather have the week off with her, taking her to museums, gardens and playgrounds! And she would prefer that too. It is what it is unfortunately, and most holidays we do spend time together.

@Nimbostratus100 "The only people I personally know who have ever played lacrosse have played it in comps"

Sure ... and the only people I personally know who drive Range Rovers live in council estates. LOL. Good trolling (Unless you know as little about Lacrosse as you seem to know about Ballet, in which case you may have mistaken kids in sink comps hitting each other with sticks for playing Lacrosse)

When England Lacrosse - the national body regulating the sport - says on the first line of it's web page that "Lacrosse is very popular in independent girls schools in the UK." I think I can be pretty confident that you are posting complete rubbish. Here's the results from the school's league in 2022 - show me where the sink comps placed. https://www.macoocoo.com/index.php?cid=&r=group%2Fdefault%2Ftournament&section=knockout&tid=1889

Utter bollocks.

I'm a teacher.

The kids in my top set are the ones whose parents come to parents evening, or ask me to phone them if they cannot make it. I have 95% parental uptake. My lower set was less than 50%.

The kids in my top set have parents who check what homework needs doing, support them with homework e.g. make sure they have quiet and space, and offer help if needed.

The kids in my top set have parents who remove their phones at 10pm at night, who don't let their kids do gaming or go out until school work is done.

Some have hobbies, some don't. Some come from better off families, others don't. It's very mixed.

It depends who you are hoping to mix with. Football is considered a low brow interest IME. The corporate boxes DH is invited to are always rugby.

but I do think that as far as uni friends, work colleagues, social occasions go, being able to join in with a bit of an inpromptu kick- about is of more value than being able to play piano. After work this evening, for example, my son went to the park to play football with work colleagues while waiting for other work colleagues from another site to join them for a pub night.

Football was suggested to fill the time, as it often is. Piano never!

I don't think it does, I think parents like to feel this because it makes them feel better or whatever

Kids all learn at different paces and in different ways

What age are we talking about? DD is year 6 and "top group". She does art club, football club and tag rugby club after school, the later two being run by the school at £2.50 a go.

We're not doing much this Easter, or any other holiday. We haven't been abroad since 2016. We're on a lower economic band and some of her classmates definitely have the expensive hobbies and holidays thing, but funnily enough none of them are in the top group.

She does well because she's academic so it comes fairly easy to her ,we do value education and support her with reading,homework,things she doesn't understand etc. even if she spends too much time on screens. She probably could be even better, but at the expense of other things. I think we found a good balance.

My son is 13 and a very high performer. The only extra curricular activity he does is Scouts once a week.