Aibu to think that the most successful kids in schools are the ones with money pumped into extracurriculars & camps?

[Imarealwoman]

In the dc's school the dc in the top sets are the ones who do expensive extracurriculars outside school eg piano, dancing, horse riding, swimming lessons, Spanish etc..
They stay after school for the baking or yoga clubs. It's Easter & the top set kids all seem to be doing expensive camps next week & some gone skiing this week.
Aibu to think one needs to have the money to pump into your child in order to have a high performer?

@Imarealwoman I'm guessing kids who do EC stuff are likely to be more confident and outgoing due to mixing with different kids and adults so that's why they get the leading roles in school plays.

because when you have a restless, non - curious, non communicative, low concentration, no self control, poorly behaving, unsatisfied, miserable, underachieving, low self esteem, poor social skills teen in front of you, then you ring home and raise concerns about their gaming.....and 9/10, you find you are right about the long -term source of their problems

My eldest son is top for a number of his classes. My younger is near the top.

Luckily they inherited their fathers brains because they certainly don't do all that stuff! They have one out of school sports club, and they each do one quite basic (free) extra curricular at school (one is a board games club, the other is a teacher supported gym session). They are spending this week basically attached to their electronics while husband and I work, or they're meeting up with mates to play Xbox or what ever! We've enforced 1 hour of school revision ahead of end of year exams first thing though.

I don't think expensive extra curricular is necessary at all, and I'm sure there are very academic kids who only want to do school and YouTube, but I think at least something out of school is essential. Teaches independence if nothing else (having to get on with kids outside school, getting changed, remembering kit etc). Also nice to have a break from school.

I'm really surprised by posters on here almost boasting that their kids do no sports or clubs out of school.

I’ve never heard that quote about the mothers intellect dictating the child’s. I can almost imagine it having an impact in a baseline way, same as height. My children are WAY cleverer than me.

Absolutely correlation, and it's more about class/family values/attainment rather than the EC per se. Notice the OP talked about ECs that are fairly MC ones - piano, skiing, rugby. My dc went to a very economically mixed primary school. There were a number of dc who were noted for their sporting commitment. The ones that were showjumpers or golfers were the high achievers, those who did boxing or street dancing were not. The latter group's parents were very committed/supportive of their dc's talents, often driving hundreds of miles or getting flights for competitions and packing supermarket bags at weekends to raise money for them.
Conversely many of the high achievers in their now grammar school are non white, second generation of very working class immigrants, who are FSM pupils. I can't think of a single one of them who is noted for sport/music, but their parents have instilled a very strong ethos of 'education is the key'.
It's much more complicated than EC makes children clever.

I think it depends on parent attitude to education and parental support and expectations.

My kids are not top set (yet?? Who knows!!). But I'm the first to say I don't always prioritise education. I read with them at night (still.primary age, though oldest in yr6) and try to remind them to do homework, but I don't push them, they don't have tutors, and sometimes I say 'oh just skip your homework this week and have some down time!' Both of mine are into a competitive sport big time. Sometimes they've missed school (not mush I might add!) to prioritise the sport! If they put as much effort into school as they do their extra curricular stuff, they'd be flying academically!! But it's not their top priority, or mine.

I'm happy to have kids that are average academically, or at least get what they need academically to ensure they can do what they want career wise when they are older. How academic they are as teens will be up to them. I'll support them, but creating little professors or top set kids is not something I prioritise at present, so unless it's what they want when they are older, I won't be pushing it. If it's what they want or need when they are older, in order to get whatever career they might choose, then I'll up my involvement and support, and even push a little or encourage a bit more to help them fulfill their dreams. If they want to focus on non academic stuff, that will b ok with me :)

Some of my DCs friends have parents who clearly value education enormously. Those kids are doing v well academically. Which is good for them and suits their family dynamic. Every family is different. I don't think extra curricular equals better academic success. Not in our case anyway. To me, it's all about parent attitude and support.

@RudsyFarmer I don't think the measure is intellect, but overall educational outcomes.

In my nearly 20 years of teaching experience. The children who go home to loving, caring parents do the best. The parents who value education by hearing their children read every day, who give their children time by playing with them, reading to them, cooking with them and who are genuinely pleased to have them around.
It’s not rocket science but sadly it’s not like that for an increasing number of children.

Ah okay. My academic record still isn’t great but my determination for them to get an excellent education is off the scale. So it must balance out somewhere.

@RudsyFarmer I think that determination is half the battle.
I was just reading the Nuffield Report which states that almost half the attainment gap seen at age 16 is in place before they even start school. So those of us whose dc don't do ECs can breathe a sigh of relief.

Interesting point about hanging around the shopping centres. A lot of kids play out on the road (well the footpaths outside & often literally on the road) now many of them have phones out their doing tik toks etc in their school uniforms now until after 9pm that the weather is better. The ones out there I know don't do any extras. The road is all they know after school.

This sums it all up

Chess is very popular with the Eastern European kids in the dc school. Chess & a musical instrument seems to a requirement of Eastern European childhood 😁

That sounds really good @PolkaDotMankini . Outside the UK where would you recommend for a nice fun educational break?

No. Really bright children are bright because of genetics. Schools add to that but piano lessons won’t do anything.

I definitely think there’s something in EC = most successful in school. That’s different to most intelligent.
Lots of school is being able to follow adult instructions, sit and listen, get along with peers, organising yourself eg have correct equipment. They may have taken exams in music or dance classes.
Children who do extra curricular have practiced those skills so it transfers into school environment.
Mum taking you to a museum v going to museum on a trip with cubs is a different experience and child will learn different skills. It’s not just about the museum itself.

How are his fitness levels? Especially as he does no extra curriculars?

He tires easily actually but enjoys playing out weather permitting, his ehcp states he must rest during PE. He has several medical issues that cause this, that’s why his attendance is so low. Screens actually allow him to rest and be social online. He attends phisio every two weeks to help him become stronger.

It's so irritating when people post things that sound general then disclose that their child has several medical issues.

@Crispymandm i didn't know he had medical conditions. You know your child best.

Either way , he has lots of screen time, no extra curricular activities but still is excelling academically and socially. Perhaps that will change in time. The thread was about extra curricular activities & camps and school success, just because my ds has medical issues does not mean I can’t share his success despite not having all the extras.

YouTube… no, usually the lived experience of trying something for themselves and improving through practice. Like cycling for example… you can’t learn to ride a bike through sitting watching a video of someone else doing it. There are a lot of skills and interests they have that just wouldn’t translate well to YouTube or similar platforms. Same with swimming. Some things you just have to do the thing to get better at it.

There is a big difference between attending extra-curricular activities and actually becoming really good at them. Some people are just passengers.

Same goes for academic subjects within school. Being bright is only half the story. If a bright lazy child wastes their potential by working less hard and coasting through school, their innate intelligence won't amount to much. Only by combining intelligence with discipline, motivation, hard work and perseverance will a child become truly accomplished. Those are the qualities that will propel the same child to becoming both a grade 8 pianist (or chess master) and a top-set maths student.

And the biggest effect (apart from genetics and environment) is how parents, and wider society, values a particular accomplishment. Street dance or skateboarding require hours and hours of practice. So does winning FIFA on the X-box. Some kids have the drive, determination, and initiate to become outstanding at these things, and sadly many adults will not appreciate them for their talent because they mistakenly believe that only equestrian sports and fencing should qualify.

You've got a real bee in your bonnet about equestrian sports and fencing! Fwiw there's a fencing club at our state school.

And tbh, attending and enjoying the club is fine. That's what the vast majority of kids do. They don't all have to be Olympians.