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That Absolutely Amazing Woman

246 replies

MrsJackRackham · 02/04/2023 13:27

I've just read about the woman who gave evidence against the killer of Olivia Pratt-Korbel. What a fucking brave and phenomenal woman. She will have to go into witness protection and leave her whole life behind but she knew it was the right thing to do. And she gave the defence lawyer a mouthful as well by the sounds of it.
I could actually cry thinking about her.

OP posts:
midsomermurderess · 03/04/2023 22:11

123ZYX · 03/04/2023 21:24

It's in favour of their moral fibre that they do it - without proper, good quality representation, he could appeal and be released. Its how our justice system works and the barrister would have had little choice in representing him

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Your comment is logically incoherent.

user146539089 · 03/04/2023 22:13

@HotSince82 It’s not up to lawyers to ‘suspect’ anything. They leave the decision making up to the jury. It’s not a perfect system but no one has ever come up with anything better.

HowcanIgetoutofthisalive · 03/04/2023 22:14

I'm confused. I swear to god, a day ago, there was a post from someone saying how this guys g/friend must have known what an oik he was, covered up so much crap in the past blah blah and all the PP's bloody roasted the g/friend, agreeing that she would have known what a shit the guy was yet lived it up on his drug money? Are you talking abouy aboyher woman in his life or have I gone mad?

HowcanIgetoutofthisalive · 03/04/2023 22:14

HowcanIgetoutofthisalive · 03/04/2023 22:14

I'm confused. I swear to god, a day ago, there was a post from someone saying how this guys g/friend must have known what an oik he was, covered up so much crap in the past blah blah and all the PP's bloody roasted the g/friend, agreeing that she would have known what a shit the guy was yet lived it up on his drug money? Are you talking abouy aboyher woman in his life or have I gone mad?

*talking about another

ThisNameIsNotAvailable · 03/04/2023 22:15

I attended court to support someone who was a victim of sex abuse. The barrister for the defence said that that person (who was 9 years old at the time), was not traumatised by the act because the next day the perpetrator gave him a present which he took. He also accused the victim of making it up, saying you knew that poor (perpetrator) had a problem with young boys and decided to exploit that. He was 9 years old at the time.

I have long judged that person as a horrible man who added to the trauma of a number of people just to win the game. Why would people behave like this?

furryfrontbottom · 03/04/2023 22:16

HotSince82 · 03/04/2023 22:04

No, as I have said many times already; they absolutely have a legal right to such representation.

What they don't have is the right to demand that I personally view their representatives as morally benign.

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I can set your mind at rest by assuring you that none of them give the tiniest, shiniest shit what you think.

HotSince82 · 03/04/2023 22:17

user146539089 · 03/04/2023 22:13

@HotSince82 It’s not up to lawyers to ‘suspect’ anything. They leave the decision making up to the jury. It’s not a perfect system but no one has ever come up with anything better.

Just because there isn't a 'better' system does in no way mean that I am mandated to view defence counsels in such cases as morally defensible.

Which, despite all misguided extrapolation to the contrary is the only position which I have held from my original comment up until and including this one.

SpringBlossomJoy · 03/04/2023 22:17

HotSince82 · 03/04/2023 22:08

It's academic though isn't it?

By undertaking the rol of a defence counsel in criminal Court they are presumably aware of the potential for their actions to necessitate an offender being deemed not guilty.

That is not a morally benign position.

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Sometimes they defend, sometimes they prosecute. They don’t get to choose which.
They have to defend or prosecute to the best of their ability - it’s how justice works. They may well dislike defending someone but they absolutely should not show it.
It’s like doctors - they have to treat injured people even if they are injured as a result of attacking an innocent person; the doctor has to do their job whether they like the person or not.

user146539089 · 03/04/2023 22:17

@ThisNameIsNotAvailable because that’s what they are obliged to say if that’s what the clients instructs them. That doesn’t mean they like or believe it.

HotSince82 · 03/04/2023 22:18

furryfrontbottom · 03/04/2023 22:16

I can set your mind at rest by assuring you that none of them give the tiniest, shiniest shit what you think.

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And I can similarly assure you that my opinion does not rest with their acquiesce.

Cocolocobaby · 03/04/2023 22:18

She is extremely brave …but she was at one point dating a known drug dealer and hit man ??

user146539089 · 03/04/2023 22:19

Oh give over with your ‘moral extrapolation’ @HotSince82 You know absolutely nothing about these people, who they are and their character.

determinedtomakethiswork · 03/04/2023 22:19

@HowcanIgetoutofthisalive there are two women. One is the permanent girlfriend and she is the one who has been criticised for looking like a WAG and has clearly been spending a ton of money on herself. The other is a woman who the drug dealer/murderer was sleeping with, along with many other women apparently. The latter woman gave evidence stating that he had murdered the little girl because she had overheard a conversation he had with another man.

HotSince82 · 03/04/2023 22:20

SpringBlossomJoy · 03/04/2023 22:17

Sometimes they defend, sometimes they prosecute. They don’t get to choose which.
They have to defend or prosecute to the best of their ability - it’s how justice works. They may well dislike defending someone but they absolutely should not show it.
It’s like doctors - they have to treat injured people even if they are injured as a result of attacking an innocent person; the doctor has to do their job whether they like the person or not.

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Yet another false equivalence;

Doctors swear the hippcratic oath of 'First, do no harm'

If only barristers were made to act similarly...

ThisNameIsNotAvailable · 03/04/2023 22:20

user146539089 · 03/04/2023 22:17

@ThisNameIsNotAvailable because that’s what they are obliged to say if that’s what the clients instructs them. That doesn’t mean they like or believe it.

That is horrendous, on reflection I do wonder whether this had the opposite of the desired effect. I can’t imagine the jury heard that and thought well of the perpetrator.

Lemonyfuckit · 03/04/2023 22:22

Why are you writing in the style of a pompous Dickens character @HotSince82?
It's almost as if you yourself are a wannabe barrister....

HotSince82 · 03/04/2023 22:22

user146539089 · 03/04/2023 22:19

Oh give over with your ‘moral extrapolation’ @HotSince82 You know absolutely nothing about these people, who they are and their character.

Granted.

I do know that on moral, if not indeed intellectual grounds you could no more count me within their number than the alleged criminals whom they choose to represent.

user146539089 · 03/04/2023 22:22

Of course it has the opposite effect of what the defendant desires. Hoisted by their own petard, and rightly so.

SpringBlossomJoy · 03/04/2023 22:23

HotSince82 · 03/04/2023 22:20

Yet another false equivalence;

Doctors swear the hippcratic oath of 'First, do no harm'

If only barristers were made to act similarly...

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A barrister defending someone is not doing any harm. They are doing their job, just like the doctor treating an injured guilty person.
Can you honestly not see why everyone needs a barrister OP? How would anyone get a fair trial if they didn’t have a barrister?

user146539089 · 03/04/2023 22:23

Again you don’t seem to grasp that they can’t pick and choose their clients @HotSince82 but don’t let the truth get in the way of your ignorance

JudgeRudy · 03/04/2023 22:24

fdgdfgdfgdfg · 03/04/2023 21:38

But without defence lawyers doing their jobs well, criminals don't get a fair trial and therefore have more chance of getting out on appeal.

It may not be a job you'd want to do, but it's a job that has to be done. I don't want to be a binman, but we'd be be living in a shit hole if we started ostracizing everyone who did the job.

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I agree @fdgdfgdfgdfg. I think Hot is implying that anyone prepared to represent this man and his 'heinous actions' does not have 'a modicum of moral integrity'. I disagree. Being someone's defence does not mean you agree with or support their actions, in the same way that if a boxer punching another boxer does not mean they hate each other....its just the nature of the game. Those the rules

HotSince82 · 03/04/2023 22:24

Lemonyfuckit · 03/04/2023 22:22

Why are you writing in the style of a pompous Dickens character @HotSince82?
It's almost as if you yourself are a wannabe barrister....

Shall I add pomposity to their list of moral failings then? 😅

HotSince82 · 03/04/2023 22:27

JudgeRudy · 03/04/2023 22:24

I agree @fdgdfgdfgdfg. I think Hot is implying that anyone prepared to represent this man and his 'heinous actions' does not have 'a modicum of moral integrity'. I disagree. Being someone's defence does not mean you agree with or support their actions, in the same way that if a boxer punching another boxer does not mean they hate each other....its just the nature of the game. Those the rules

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I don't mind of you disagree with me but surely you can see that a boxer is only at risk of injuring his opponent?

This is not the case if a barrister is successful in securing a verdict of non guilt for a guilty client. Their victims will suffer. Both on the stand if a witness and undeniably, afterwards.

SpringBlossomJoy · 03/04/2023 22:28

HotSince82 · 03/04/2023 22:27

I don't mind of you disagree with me but surely you can see that a boxer is only at risk of injuring his opponent?

This is not the case if a barrister is successful in securing a verdict of non guilt for a guilty client. Their victims will suffer. Both on the stand if a witness and undeniably, afterwards.

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But that would be the jury’s fault, not the barrister.

HotSince82 · 03/04/2023 22:29

SpringBlossomJoy · 03/04/2023 22:23

A barrister defending someone is not doing any harm. They are doing their job, just like the doctor treating an injured guilty person.
Can you honestly not see why everyone needs a barrister OP? How would anyone get a fair trial if they didn’t have a barrister?

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For the final time;

I am not asserting that representation should not be a legal right.
I am asserting my right to look disfavourably upon those who make their living by such representation.