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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think society is misogynistic and often toxic about infertility?

106 replies

leaveitnow1244 · 02/04/2023 10:57

So, hear me out,

I just put into tiktok and Instagram infertility and have scrolled through hundreds and hundreds of women devastated by infertility.

Not one male? I understand men aren't as open with emotions but I still find it very odd that not one man is devastated about infertility to make content about it, really?! Not one.

It made me think, are men just not that bothered and most of the time dragged along this parenting journey? (Of course I know some men are upset by infertility I'm not saying every single guy is unbothered but it strikes me as very odd that not one single man wants to voice his opinion on it)

Now the next thing is, every single piece of information is about the devastation of infertility. Not one helpful bit of information about the positives it can bring, or how to positively deal with it instead of letting it crush your whole life.

Nothing about how not everyone suffering infertility is 'devastated' and some just accept it and can still be relatively happy.

I was saddened by how toxic these messages are and how infertility appears to be one narrative - it's the most terrible thing that can happen to a woman.

That's not helpful to everyone, at all.

I'm infertile and of course, have bad days but on the whole I'm quite happy with life and not Devastated but this stuff made me feel like maybe I should be.

It's just sad how society makes us feel like women should lose hope with life basically if they can't have children. It's very sad.

OP posts:
kistanbul · 02/04/2023 14:29

Youdoyoubabe · 02/04/2023 14:23

I think men do care but don’t share as much in general. I genuinely think they often don’t care as much as women though.

the women I know who are infertile and who did want children often utterly heartbroken, understandable. Most of them wouldn’t go on TikTok about it either though.

“the women I know who are infertile and who did want children often utterly heartbroken”

I suspect that this is actually the women you know who share their experiences.

JudgeRudy · 02/04/2023 14:35

I'd imagine that people posting about the devastation of infertility are by default devastated. They're not posting to educate or give a balanced view. By the time they're 'at peace' (is thatvthe term) they probably don't feel the need to post anything. I would imagine if you want some more positive perspectives there are charities and organisations to go with.
As for men I think your suggestions sound reasonable. Men don't tend to 'share' in the same way (though that's definitely changing) and yes I believe the majority wouldn't feel 'devestated' in the same way a woman might. Clearly we are stereotyping here and there are exceptions. I would imagine a man would feel responsible for his OHs pain and that would affect him way more than the lack of children. Also, maybe women are more 'aware' of their fertility. Irratic periods, endometriosis, PCOS etc...would all give a woman a clue that she may have difficulty conceiving. A man would likely not even know for a long time.
Tbh, I can't imagine what a 'positive' infertility story might be. I was devastated, now I'm not and I have a great child free life (that has nothing to do with my infertility)

KimberleyClark · 02/04/2023 15:14

I think it’s more about society recognising that a baby isn’t the only possible happy ending to an infertility story, which it currently does not seem to do.

Original poster
leaveitnow1244 · 02/04/2023 15:16

@KimberleyClark yes exactly that 👏

OP posts:
Fifi1010 · 02/04/2023 15:20

If we are being honest many men are ambivalent about becoming parents. Many go along with it , a high proportion of men would be happy having no DC.

Newname221 · 02/04/2023 15:22

fitzwilliamdarcy · 02/04/2023 13:52

In my experience all speaking about it does is cause other women (and it’s always women) to round on you.

I’m infertile but for me the losing the chance to have a baby part was the last on my list of worries - I had to have emergency surgery, an intensive recovery, and am now in menopause in my 30s. I was offered infertility counselling but refused it as it really wasn’t the thing I was concerned about. I’d never wanted kids and still don’t.

I remember saying that I felt lucky that this had happened to me rather than another 32 year old who desperately wanted babies, only to be roundly told off by others on the ward for being “glib” about fertility.

I was also told by a female coworker that they’d rather have died in surgery than be left unable to have kids. I said that I was glad that I disagreed with that, being alive and all, and she said that she couldn’t understand how a woman could say that.

I’m also part of an infertility group at work and woe betide you if you try and express anything other than doom and gloom there, because you will get told off for insensitivity to others’ experiences.

Men don’t go through this crap because either they get the deserved plaudits for being brave enough to open up about how hard it is, or they go along without being utterly devastated and nobody makes them feel like they should be devastated because their sole purpose on this earth is now unrealised.

We still live in an incredibly baby/child centric world, for women. I sometimes think we’ve barely made any progress at all. But then I suppose childless women who aren’t howling in the streets but seem vaguely ok with it all aren’t burned at the stake anymore so that’s something.

But being told you are infertile is not going to have much impact if you didn’t want kids anyway, is it? It’s like me being told I’m never going to live in Spain - it’s going to have far less impact on me, someone with no interest in living in Spain, than it will on someone who has dreamt of moving to Spain since they were a baby.

My own sister is child free through choice but likely infertile anyway. Her infertility has little impact on her life; whereas my life would be immeasurably different if I hadn’t eventually gone on to have my children through my own fertility issues.

ANiceBigCupOfTea · 02/04/2023 15:52

This thread is a breath of fresh air.
My son was stillborn which absolutely destroyed me. I was in a very bad place about it for a long time and I've done lots of work to be able to enjoy life again. Which I do.
I've had two miscarriages since having him and no living children yet.
My son died due to having trisomy 13 and I now do volunteer work in this space. I heard a lot of 'I could only heal when I had my healthy child' but when that journey is difficult, you have to be able to see a light either way.
I'm feeling content in my life at the minute and although I do really want a healthy living child, that is proving very difficult so I do look at my life and what I will do and how I will enjoy it one way or another.
Love to everyone who has suffered on this thread in any way.

missmollygreen · 02/04/2023 16:04

I think its the opposite of misogynistic. The fact we live in a society where it would be pretty unthinkable for a man to admit his impotence seems pretty crappy to me.

Number24Bus · 02/04/2023 17:06

@Newname221 but the point is that, despite her situation, @fitzwilliamdarcy still wasn't allowed to express it in a positive light, eg the comment from her coworker. It's as if you weren't allowed to go to Spain but also had to pretend to be very upset about not being allowed to go to Spain.

Original poster
leaveitnow1244 · 02/04/2023 17:08

Fifi1010 · 02/04/2023 15:20

If we are being honest many men are ambivalent about becoming parents. Many go along with it , a high proportion of men would be happy having no DC.

I agree with this, it seems to be swept under the carpet though.

OP posts:
Newname221 · 02/04/2023 17:48

Number24Bus · 02/04/2023 17:06

@Newname221 but the point is that, despite her situation, @fitzwilliamdarcy still wasn't allowed to express it in a positive light, eg the comment from her coworker. It's as if you weren't allowed to go to Spain but also had to pretend to be very upset about not being allowed to go to Spain.

The coworker thing is one issue; however discussing it in the ward where presumably people around her wanted kids and were now facing infertility does in fact seem … like it was maybe quite insensitive.

An example from my own history would be when I miscarried my first unplanned pregnancy. We were considering an abortion at the time (although we would likely have carried to term in the end, tbh) - now it would be inappropriate to discuss this when I was in the medical bay in the early pregnancy unit, surrounded by those who were going through miscarriages with babies they intentionally conceived.

To link it back to the Spain situation, if I were somehow in some sort of situation where I was in a room full of people waiting to find out if they could indeed move to Spain, if we all found out we couldn’t move to Spain, it would indeed be insensitive for me to say “well I didn’t want to move to Spain anyway, there are loads of good things about not living in Spain - in fact, living in Spain is quite rubbish to be honest” since many of the people in the room would be devastated to not to be able to move to Spain.

fitzwilliamdarcy · 02/04/2023 18:27

The coworker thing is one issue; however discussing it in the ward where presumably people around her wanted kids and were now facing infertility does in fact seem … like it was maybe quite insensitive.

What I said was that I felt lucky that this had happened to me rather than someone who would have found that additional factor to be devastating. Every person on the ward had kids themselves - I saw their families - and were in their late 40s and 50s, so outside of the normal window for fertility. Not that that makes it ok to be glib if indeed I had been glib, but I do not think that I was.

But noted. A 30 year old on an oncology ward shouldn’t express anything about their experience that isn’t “infertility is the worst thing imaginable”, how incredibly thoughtless of them.

turtlemurtle1982 · 02/04/2023 19:30

As someone who has/ is affected by fertility issues I don't see any positives. I think child free by choice is valid and there are many positives to being child free if you chose it. I did have my happy ending with one dc through ivf. I've met countless couples with infertility and I don't hear them speak of positives. Most are in fact devastated, however thats not to say that they (we) feel that way forever. Like any adverse experience people mostly deal with it and find a silver lining somewhere- whatever that lining is, it's very personal to everyone.

Cicily · 02/04/2023 21:03

leaveitnow1244 · 02/04/2023 11:53

@Cicily childfree tends to be people that chose not to have children mainly in my experience, it's a different experience entirely

Not necessarily. I’ve been in those communities for years.

SarahShorty · 31/07/2023 10:27

I don't normally post on AIBU threads because they tend to give me a migraine, but this subject hits close to home.

All my tests came back okay. However, my DH has been diagnosed as subfertile, or otherwise known as functionally infertile, due to a sperm count of 11 million per millilitre of ejaculate. The few he does make are above average in every other measure, it's just the count is too low. And believe me when I say he is a broken man for it. He's got low T aswell which is not helping with the count and he's always struggled with low mood and motivation. Because the relationship between testosterone and sperm production is still not yet known, the only way to boost testosterone is to encourage his body to make testosterone. He has tried everything he can and there has no been no change in count. His body can be given all the ingredients it needs to make testosterone, but his body simply doesn't know how to make enough of it.

He cries himself to sleep. He hates himself. He self-deprecates every day. Every failed attempt to get me pregnant makes him feel less of a man. He will NEVER show any of these emotions to anyone except me and even then, he doesn't show all of them because he feels so embarrassed. Unfortunately whenever infertility is talked about, the focus is always on the woman. People forget that it takes two to tango and frankly it pisses me off that society has been so ignorant. Whether society likes it or not, men matter an awful lot and it's high-time they are bloody well listened to and cared for.

Barrell · 31/07/2023 10:38

I think men are generally less interested in having children that women. If I hadn’t wanted children, I’m pretty sure we wouldn’t have one. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t love her or that he is isn’t a good father (he is). He just doesn’t have that biological urge to have them.

BewareBends · 31/07/2023 10:43

You seem confused, OP. On the one hand you suggest men don’t want to be parents, therefore mustn’t be bothered by infertility and that this is ‘misogynistic’, based on posts on sm. On the other you complain about the narratives of ‘devastation’ on social media — you get how SM works, right, that it’s just Chloe from down the road posting on behalf of herself, not crafting some kind of Message of Hope? And that the age of the largest TikTok user base is 18-24, not a time when most people are considering children. (AND that, if we’re honest, the average is of TikTok posters is smaller than their shoe size, so I wouldn’t go on there looking for anything thoughtful.)

I feel very sorry for anyone struggling with infertility, but I think that if you want narratives of hope/survival, put them out there yourself.

WestwardHo1 · 31/07/2023 11:10

I was/am infertile. I was very upset at the time, for several years in fact. Felt I'd failed as a woman etc. You're right OP - it is misogynistic. The prevailing culture is that the ultimate in womanhood is bearing and caring for children. My overwhelming feeling was the failure and how to deal with it. It actually broke my marriage up

Ten years later, I am so over it. The thought of having lived through the last few years with small children is a horrifying one! The thought of the years to come, and what children will be facing makes me very sad. While it's a pity about my marriage, marriages end for all kinds of reasons and I doubt we'd still be together if we'd had children. He'd actually have made a bloody awful parent and I doubt I'd have been too much better. Obviously I'm concerned about old age. That's the main thing I'm sad about

But as for the here and now, I'm enjoying my freedom and not being a slave to boring routine. I like not having children.

KimberleyClark · 31/07/2023 11:24

WestwardHo1 · 31/07/2023 11:10

I was/am infertile. I was very upset at the time, for several years in fact. Felt I'd failed as a woman etc. You're right OP - it is misogynistic. The prevailing culture is that the ultimate in womanhood is bearing and caring for children. My overwhelming feeling was the failure and how to deal with it. It actually broke my marriage up

Ten years later, I am so over it. The thought of having lived through the last few years with small children is a horrifying one! The thought of the years to come, and what children will be facing makes me very sad. While it's a pity about my marriage, marriages end for all kinds of reasons and I doubt we'd still be together if we'd had children. He'd actually have made a bloody awful parent and I doubt I'd have been too much better. Obviously I'm concerned about old age. That's the main thing I'm sad about

But as for the here and now, I'm enjoying my freedom and not being a slave to boring routine. I like not having children.

I am in a similar position to you though thankfully my marriage survived. Had infertility and IVF, now in my early 60s I love my freedom and my peaceful home and our lovely holidays. I’m glad you are enjoying your freedom too.

GETTINGLIKEMYMOTHER · 31/07/2023 11:54

I don’t see it as misogyny. But IMO men are much less likely to talk about their own infertility - they often see it as a slur on their manhood and are ashamed of it. I’ve heard more than once of men who won’t even produce a sperm sample for checking - presumably because if it turns out to be their ‘fault’ that their partner can’t conceive, they can’t handle it.

It was literally years before the DP of a friend of a dd agreed to have his checked - he took it as a massive slur that anyone could imagine he wasn’t capable of fathering a child.

onefinemess · 31/07/2023 12:44

leaveitnow1244 · 02/04/2023 10:57

So, hear me out,

I just put into tiktok and Instagram infertility and have scrolled through hundreds and hundreds of women devastated by infertility.

Not one male? I understand men aren't as open with emotions but I still find it very odd that not one man is devastated about infertility to make content about it, really?! Not one.

It made me think, are men just not that bothered and most of the time dragged along this parenting journey? (Of course I know some men are upset by infertility I'm not saying every single guy is unbothered but it strikes me as very odd that not one single man wants to voice his opinion on it)

Now the next thing is, every single piece of information is about the devastation of infertility. Not one helpful bit of information about the positives it can bring, or how to positively deal with it instead of letting it crush your whole life.

Nothing about how not everyone suffering infertility is 'devastated' and some just accept it and can still be relatively happy.

I was saddened by how toxic these messages are and how infertility appears to be one narrative - it's the most terrible thing that can happen to a woman.

That's not helpful to everyone, at all.

I'm infertile and of course, have bad days but on the whole I'm quite happy with life and not Devastated but this stuff made me feel like maybe I should be.

It's just sad how society makes us feel like women should lose hope with life basically if they can't have children. It's very sad.

You think society is misogynistic for not posting on a social media site?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Should all the misogynistic men out there join Instasham just to make you feel better?

Ever heard of privacy?

WestwardHo1 · 02/08/2023 11:14

onefinemess · 31/07/2023 12:44

You think society is misogynistic for not posting on a social media site?

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

Should all the misogynistic men out there join Instasham just to make you feel better?

Ever heard of privacy?

Show quote history

A the nuance! Well done @onefinemess . You're so very cutting with your row of laughing faces Hmm

Isn't the point the OP was making that social media is actually a reflection of societal attitudes?

justemoi1983 · 05/03/2024 01:51

I really appreciate your take on the single message!!

We've been struggling with infertility for going on 7 years, and it is hard and I am sad about it. But I also think that I'll have a beautiful life even if there isn't a baby in it. The internet is full of "if I don't have a baby I'll die" and "not having a baby is the best thing that ever happened to me." I don't want to take away from those real feelings that people have, but it's hard to find room for "I really wish I could have a baby, but I accept that not everyone can have what they want and I'm rebuilding in other ways." I'd love to hear more of those perspectives that don't just talk about how much travel you can do without a kid.

babyproblems · 05/03/2024 02:10

Also wondered if the algorithm will mainly show you women based on your own profile. If you were a male or the app had profiled you differently you might see different results.. I don’t know this but I suspect it’s the case.

WrylyAmused · 05/03/2024 08:27

Kind of agree re men - the toxic masculinity/virility angle means I can easily imagine that virtually no man is going to post about infertility being down to them... And although some do desperately want children, I don't think it's as common as in women.

With women - well, I'm apparently infertile (had all the tests, it's unexplained, never been pregnant), but since I was also not especially bothered about it, I just updated my internal narrative to "childfree" and got on with life.

Since I don't have a huge need for children and don't think about it very much, don't feel hurt about it etc etc, then I neither post about it nor seek out content based around it - it's just something which exists and I feel is not particularly important about me, like my hair or eye colour.

So I can also totally see a world in which people who aren't that bothered really wouldn't ever feel the need to make content about it - that makes perfect sense to me. And anyone who was desperate to have children and had to come to terms with not - I imagine they'd probably be very sensitive to others in a similar position and also wouldn't want to post that kind of content as they'd see it as insensitive...