To think society is misogynistic and often toxic about infertility?

[leaveitnow1244]

So, hear me out,

I just put into tiktok and Instagram infertility and have scrolled through hundreds and hundreds of women devastated by infertility.

Not one male? I understand men aren't as open with emotions but I still find it very odd that not one man is devastated about infertility to make content about it, really?! Not one.

It made me think, are men just not that bothered and most of the time dragged along this parenting journey? (Of course I know some men are upset by infertility I'm not saying every single guy is unbothered but it strikes me as very odd that not one single man wants to voice his opinion on it)

Now the next thing is, every single piece of information is about the devastation of infertility. Not one helpful bit of information about the positives it can bring, or how to positively deal with it instead of letting it crush your whole life.

Nothing about how not everyone suffering infertility is 'devastated' and some just accept it and can still be relatively happy.

I was saddened by how toxic these messages are and how infertility appears to be one narrative - it's the most terrible thing that can happen to a woman.

That's not helpful to everyone, at all.

I'm infertile and of course, have bad days but on the whole I'm quite happy with life and not Devastated but this stuff made me feel like maybe I should be.

It's just sad how society makes us feel like women should lose hope with life basically if they can't have children. It's very sad.

There are other helpful positive books out there too, for example Already Complete - Beyond the Myths of Childlessness and Finding Joy Beyond Childlessness by Lesley Pyne and Jody Day.

I've found there's a very narrow range of things men truly care about.

@emptythelitterbox agree, I don't think many of them are truly passionate about the TTC journey and are bothered by it.

Hence why men are just not as present as women in the child rearing stakes at all

Sorry left out the author of the first one - it’s Vivienne Edgecombe.

Search for anything about emotions and feelings and it's predominantly women. There's a reason men are a higher suicide risk than women and it's about expressing emotions.

Re negative. It probably wouldn't occur to people who are infertile and happy about it to do a tik tok etc because it therefore isn't such a big issue. "I'm infertile and it's AMAZING" is just quite an odd thing to do it on. I mean it's great to feel that way, but it's probably not something that costumes your thoughts.

Perhaps you could do your own OP and encourage other people to, if that's the kind of content you want to see

Maybe I'm lucky, but my husband cares equally as much, maybe even more than I do about the TTC process. He wanted kids before I did.

He hasn't always been the best communicator of his feelings but we've worked together over the years to understand what we need from each other in our best and worst moments, and everything in between.

I'd argue that 'most' men are probably just a bit misunderstood in the way they communicate, and probably play down a lot of their emotions.

We've been together a long time though, and I think a lot of people probably rush into things without having such a complex understanding of their partner's emotions.

The specific angle of your post I agree with. I do think there is a heavy undertone, indeed overtone of misogyny about infertility. Thinking about it it's almost as though infertile women are somehow broken because their bodies cannot do the one thing it's 'supposed' to do. Consider all the ways politicians and others have been beside themselves as of late trying to explain what a woman is.

For fuck’s sake is there no thread the trans debate can’t be brought into.

I don't see any positives from infertility. I guess it also takes years to be at peace with not having children. Luckily I havent had to think how I would have coped with being childfree not by choice.

Maybe too many cats.

“infertility appears to be one narrative” Oh god, yes! I hate it.

I hide and lie about my infertility and miscarriages, because it seems socially unconscionable to be a bit sad but basically ok.

I know it will never change unless people like me speak up, but I’m in no mood to be a trailblazer.

In any case, what would I say? I’ve seen people who have been through it get attacked for “belittling miscarriage”. I feel sad for people who are devastated but the “worst thing a women can go through” narrative is deeply unhelpful.

I had a miscarriage after IVF which I spent years saving for and just had another now. They are bloody awful and devastating. For many women they really are horrible. It isn't for you to say it isn't the worst thing.

Perhaps fewer men feel the need to put all their personal issues on social media? I mean, good for them - sometimes women need to think about how much they overshare.

@kistanbul precisely. It's helpful to some I'm
Sure but not everyone and it's such a huge thing affecting so many women I am surprised that in todays day Nd age there isn't more positivity being spread

I think I know what you mean, OP.
Just this week DH and I were randomly talking about it - how if we did end up infertile (we aren’t) we would have just carried on with life - a bit sad at first that the choice was taken from us - but move on with hobbies, career and lots of travel.

We wouldn’t have even considered other avenues like IVF or adoption.

That said, I can imagine more maternal and gentle-natured women could feel devastated. Not everyone is as hard-hearted and content being alone as me.

As for men, i think many don’t think much about potential, abstract children - they mainly bond with an actual child, once born.

No I just think men, even when they're told it's their sperm that's got the issue, still believe it's the woman's fault. The wombs fault. That the correct womb could carry their child.

Yes, it is for me to say this. You responding this way is exactly the problem.

I am not telling you how to feel about your experiences. I am saying that women who feel differently from you also have the right to be considered and heard.

I had four rounds of IVF, five miscarriages, no children and now it’s to late after cancer treatment destroyed what may have been left of my fertility.

It was all pretty shitty, but is miscarriage and infertility the worst thing ever? Nope.

I’d like to talk about my experiences, because it was shit and talking would help, but I know I can’t without being attacked by people like you.

They really don’t, they think it makes them less of a man. It doesn’t.

You can have a perfectly happy and positive life after miscarriage/infertility. It’s not a life of constant absence ffs!

It is harder to achieve peace and happiness when you have to hide your experiences though. I wish people could see that.

I am sorry you have had to go through that and obviously that has changed your perspective. Hope you are doing better now? However it is still a traumatic thing to go through and just because other things happen that are pretty serious doesnt mean losing a baby isnt. It is a bit like sayisay"worse things happen at sea". I am probably a bit angry at miscarrying a natural pregnancy that is probably unlikely to happen again after never happening in a decade. Probably shouldnt be on here to be fair.

Thanks for that response. I am genuinely sorry for your loss. I hope you find the peace and the family you want.

I’m doing pretty well now. Honestly, I was of the view that my miscarriages etc were shit but not devastating even before the cancer. It didn’t change my perspective in the way you imply.

Miscarriage policy and practice (and how we talk about it) should consider everyone who has experienced it. My emotional response is different from yours, but I still have emotional needs. It feels like I and people like me have to be quiet and be content to ignored because we haven’t responded in the socially acceptable way to not becoming mothers. That can’t be right.

In my experience all speaking about it does is cause other women (and it’s always women) to round on you.

I’m infertile but for me the losing the chance to have a baby part was the last on my list of worries - I had to have emergency surgery, an intensive recovery, and am now in menopause in my 30s. I was offered infertility counselling but refused it as it really wasn’t the thing I was concerned about. I’d never wanted kids and still don’t.

I remember saying that I felt lucky that this had happened to me rather than another 32 year old who desperately wanted babies, only to be roundly told off by others on the ward for being “glib” about fertility.

I was also told by a female coworker that they’d rather have died in surgery than be left unable to have kids. I said that I was glad that I disagreed with that, being alive and all, and she said that she couldn’t understand how a woman could say that.

I’m also part of an infertility group at work and woe betide you if you try and express anything other than doom and gloom there, because you will get told off for insensitivity to others’ experiences.

Men don’t go through this crap because either they get the deserved plaudits for being brave enough to open up about how hard it is, or they go along without being utterly devastated and nobody makes them feel like they should be devastated because their sole purpose on this earth is now unrealised.

We still live in an incredibly baby/child centric world, for women. I sometimes think we’ve barely made any progress at all. But then I suppose childless women who aren’t howling in the streets but seem vaguely ok with it all aren’t burned at the stake anymore so that’s something.

Yes. Unbelievably annoying.

I couldn’t agree more. I have been shouted down on here in the past for saying that distressing as our infertility was it would have been worse if either of us had been diagnosed with a terminal illness.

Another thing I find is that if I am asked if I have children and I say no couldn’t have them but I’m really OK with it, no one ever says that’s good you feel like that, glad things have worked out for you, they either go a bit quiet or change the subject. It’s like you’re not allowed to feel ok about not being able to have children, you HAVE to be sad and full of regret.

I think men do care but don’t share as much in general. I genuinely think they often don’t care as much as women though.

the women I know who are infertile and who did want children often utterly heartbroken, understandable. Most of them wouldn’t go on TikTok about it either though.