Who was PM during the best of times for you?

[verdantverdure]

Me?

Blair. Brown, first bit of Cameron.

On paper I earn more money now but everything's tits up isn't it? From the economy to shit on beaches to being able to get access to the NHS when needed.

John Major, NI peace process

Blair/Brown

Apart from Iraq - Blair/Brown without a doubt. The country was booming and public services were actually being funded.

The US did the vast majority of the bombing and killing in Iraq, if the UK had stayed out, it would still of happened.
Plus the Kurds and Marsh Arabs would disagree the war was a bad idea.

Saddam used WMD, killing 1000s, whilst you and others can go on about fake dossiers, what if we'd done nothing and Saddam had used gas again?

Blair had no choice based on the intel from the USA.

The UK functioned as a country in all previous inc post war Govt's (inc Thatcher) until 2010, 13 years and on going Austerity wrecked the UK, then Brexit, then CV, i don't think we will recover now.

At reasonable levels. Cameron and Clegg raised them to the current crippling levels. And before the Blair era only an elite 10% of the population had a university education, Blair democratised it and widened opportunity.

Shouldn't be forgotten that the Tories removed the NHS bursary AND got rid of the maintenance grant.. now a loan.

Under Blair, my DD would have debts of £0.00, under the Tories.. its £45k, she also has to pay back more and earlier due to hi interest rates and frozen loan thresholds... now the UK has the highest tuition fees anywhere in the world.

So instead of holding the Tories to account for these disastrous decisions, we get "...but Labour"

Blair

The Tories are very good at gaslighting us and people believe them. They keep saying they're the party of fiscal prudence and low tax and yet we've got the highest national debt since the 60s and the highest level of taxation for 70 years.
They keep coming out with their slogans... remember 'I'll cut the deficit, not the NHS' and then proceed to do the exact opposite.
Oven-ready deal indeed...all this talk of the GFA and the Brexit nutters are ready to trample all over it.

It looked like that yes but I remember at the time it was every Tom dick and Harry going to uni for alsorts of mickey mouse courses, many of which weren't used for anything afterwards, and it massively cheapened the worth of a degree. No wonder they had to start charging. It's also why so many jobs now require a degree to open an envelope.

So you think having a population in which only an elite 10% are educated to degree standard is a good thing? That it’s conducive to economic growth and inward investment? I suppose it keeps all the little people in their place.

Blair/Brown

The most popular degree courses are subjects allied to medicine, nursing, pre-med, computer science, biosciences, sports, design, business & admin, history, engineering & law.

And of course if the Government really wanted to change that they've had 13 years in government.

Sorry but that is pure nonsense!

Countries like Germany and France have similar levels of Uni attendance, around 30 to 37% but have tiny tuition fees compared to the UK.

The vast majority of degrees are in subjects that we need skilled workers in, post grad unemployment rate is down too, approx 6%.

Our Uni attendance rates show that the majority of young people do not go to University, compare that to Korea and Japan? 80% and 53% respectively, thats a big problem in a skilled economy.

Have you got any links etc to prove your assertions that all these degrees are "mickey mouse" ?

Was that in my post, or did I just get words put in my mouth?

I was of the generation where lots of my peers were suddenly going to uni, most of whom now work in jobs that certainly don't require a degree so it was all a very costly waste of time. It devalued a degree certainly and became too unaffordable to sustain, hence the charge.

It only made things harder for those who genuinely need a degree for their career as they now get charged £££s to do one. It's also made it difficult for some employees who are no longer able to work their way up in their field as now a degree is required on the outset.

So opening it up to the masses for the sake of it, whilst it looks good on paper and pleases voters, it really wasn't a great idea in the long run. It's caused far more difficulty in the long run.

If Blair hasn’t taken us into Iraq on made up intel and against public sentiment he would have gone down extremely well in history.

I was in my first years of primary. I remember literacy and numeracy hour coming in. My mum said schooling changed so much as they put so much money into it. She really credits that Labour Government for my good education

Have you got any links etc to prove your assertions that all these degrees are "mickey mouse" ?

Of course she hasn’t. That post’s straight out of the Daily Mail with added rubbish punctuation.

Blair and cameron. Not so much brown, he was the start of the fuck ups.

If Blair hasn’t taken us into Iraq on made up intel and against public sentiment he would have gone down extremely well in history.

It wasn’t against public sentiment, the majority of people supported it at the time, including the leader of the opposition who openly said he would have done exactly the same thing based on regime change. The lack of public support is revisionist history.

Nobody lambasts Cameron for Libya but I suppose he fucked so much up it kind of gets lost in the noise.

Exactly, it only made it more difficult in the long run for those fields that genuinely require a degree level of education. The mickey mouse courses are not such a thing now like they were in the 00s because people are put off pissing about at uni for 3 years at the expense of £££s debt. But with my generation, it was certainly encouraged to go to uni to do courses that were ridiculous to go on and work in jobs which previous generations had just happily worked their way up in. It was never a good thing and genuinely cheapened a degrees worth.

"It only made things harder for those who genuinely need a degree for their career as they now get charged £££s to do one."

What have the Conservatives done in the last 13 years to tackle escalating fees?

And that is why tax credits are shit.

Wasn’t it Cameron and Clegg who tripled fees?

It's a rubbish situation because if it went back to how it was, it would go back to every Tom Dick and Harry doing ridiculous courses again, which was simply unaffordable. So it's a catch 22.

I agree that those years were great. Sadly they weren't sustainable and even if labour had stayed in power then the fairground mentality could not have continued. The money was all gone. Mostly into the hands of the islington crew.

My DH remembers a wage freeze and living on bread pudding to afford the rent when Wilson was pm in the 70s. Funny how ideology trumps reality