AIBU to think rape is now legal in the UK?

[verdantverdure]

If there's almost no chance of a rapist being caught and punished then rape is legal, right?

Less than 0.7% are ever convicted.

Less than 1.4% are ever even charged

I'm not sure this is a government that cares about women, you guys.

What's the difference?

If you have almost zero chance of being punished for doing a rape then what's the difference between that and rape being legal?

YANBU, irrespective of what it states in statute, the outcome is essentially the same as if it was legal.

Women always have been - and continue to be - 2nd class citizens.

Oh please!!! As has been mentioned on this thread many times, they often have a shit tonne of evidence and still do nothing.

No rape is not legal.
The difference is that the law states it as illegal.

Are you suggesting that because of the low conviction rate, we may as well make it legal ??? Or do you see the value in it still be illegal in law?

The coniviction rates are shocking and i believe that is an absolute disgrace and needs to change, but its still illegal.

Naunet
Oh please!!! As has been mentioned on this thread many times, they often have a shit tonne of evidence and still do nothing.

It often comes down to word against word - which often isn't enough to prove beyond reasonable;e doubt.

So why isn’t GBH on there? Same thing, no?

It often doesn’t, because there is plenty of evidence, but you keep telling yourself that.

What evidence are you referring to?

If a rape is reported, it will be an urgent response to it - especially if it has just happened or within the forensic window

If it is an historic report - it will be still high up on the list of priorities as safeguarding will need to be done

Its a huge topic as to why the conviction rate is so low. As has been mentioned on here, it is a difficult offence to prove beyond reasonable doubt as it is often one word against another. All the forensics are often immaterial if the suspect says that it was consensual.

You also have to consider that a lot of victims/survivors don't want to pursue the matter to court. They don't want to relive it all through the courts again in 6 months time. A lot just want to be supported and believed and that will be enough to allow them to move forward . A lot are content with the fact that the suspect has been arrested and interviewed and the whole case is recorded.

I don't think we should be putting any pressure on victims/survivors to pursue the cases to court against their will just because the conviction rate is low.

Evidence that has already been detailed on this thread for a start.

Naunet
Evidence that has already been detailed on this thread for a start.

Such as..... unless i have missed it you need to refer to it.

As I said above, it is a difficult offence to prove beyond reasonable doubt as it is often one word against another. All the forensics are often immaterial if the suspect says that it was consensual.

I'm not sure this is a government that cares about women, you guys.

First of all the judiciary and the police are independent of the government nor has the burden of proof, in a criminal court, changed under this government.

Finally, what were the stats when Sir Keir Stamer, the multimillionaire, was head of the DPP ?.

You'd think our resident police apologist would want to look at the ways you CAN increase reporting and conviction rather than blaming the victims and saying that its a bit hard.

A microcosm of the larger issue.

Oh, our resident rozzer has arrived to Tansplain why piss poor rape convictions are in no the fault if a misogynist culture in policing.

MrsTerryPratchett
I'm not blaming the victims/survivors - and stop just falling back on the 'police apologist' line when you can't add anything constructive - it starts to get boring.

I'm putting my opinion across

What ways do you think we can improve things based on the current burden of proof for crimes at court?

And there are a shit load more that aren't reported. I certainly wouldn't report it after what I've seen people go through

TooBigOhForMyBoots
Oh, our resident rozzer has arrived to Tansplain why piss poor rape convictions are in no the fault if a misogynist culture in policing.

So put a constructive argument together then. Do you honestly think that the whole police, CPS and judicial service is deliberate making the conviction rates for rape as low as they can? Or trying to legalise it?

Radi0
Exactly - and a lot don't want to go through it all again at court

We should not be putting pressure on them to do so if they don't

The Police do not convict anybody, the justice system is responsible for that. Although I'm sure you'd want to change that- a 21st-century Star Chamber perhaps ?.

So what can change in the judicial system that will increase the conviction rate?

Do we abandon the burden of proof and go along the 'balance of probabilities' as in civil courts?

I did put forward my recommendations upthread. I'd also recommend a complete restructuring of the police force so that lazy, institutionalised police officers with learned helplessness be put out to pasture.

I've also posted some suggestions upthread. I also agree with this.

TooBigForMyBoots
properly functioning police, forensics and justice system would definitely help.

Forensics will not help you in the case where the suspect states that it was consensual

The CPS & Courts work on proving beyond reasonable doubt - do propose to change this?

I agree - lazy, institutionalized cops should be gotten rid off, and i have said this on several other threads. Betting & continued vetting and PDR's - and no 'rainbow' culture etc

It's funded adequately or not by the government. You may remember barristers striking recently.

It currently takes 2.3 years for a rape case to come to court.

And here you go: (Keir Starmer was DPP between 2008 and 2013)