Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to think rape is now legal in the UK?

215 replies

verdantverdure · 29/03/2023 21:04

If there's almost no chance of a rapist being caught and punished then rape is legal, right?

Less than 0.7% are ever convicted.

Less than 1.4% are ever even charged

I'm not sure this is a government that cares about women, you guys.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
Felix125 · 02/04/2023 20:54

Where is it documented?

If that was the case - why is the conviction rate as low as it is?

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 02/04/2023 22:52

Felix125 · 02/04/2023 20:54

Where is it documented?

If that was the case - why is the conviction rate as low as it is?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50406598

The rate is low as that is the number of people convicted against how many report.

Royal Courts of Justice

Hidden rape conviction target revealed

A target introduced in 2016 may have led to prosecutors dropping rape cases, Newsnight learns.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50406598

monsteramunch · 02/04/2023 23:37

Felix125 · 02/04/2023 16:38

When was this? - he should not have been NFA'd if he admitted it?
I take it you gave a statement etc etc

There is no quota that I know of - and every rape which I have crimed gets investigated and not written off due to a quota

Your reply to a poster sharing their experience of rape isn't very empathetic or kind tbh, instead it's formal and cold. A 'sorry to hear what happened to you' or similar would be a better reflection of the victim centred approach you say you take IRL.

To the poster, I really am so very sorry you went through that and that justice wasn't served. It's awful Flowers

WeeWillyWinkie9 · 03/04/2023 09:13

monsteramunch · 02/04/2023 23:37

Your reply to a poster sharing their experience of rape isn't very empathetic or kind tbh, instead it's formal and cold. A 'sorry to hear what happened to you' or similar would be a better reflection of the victim centred approach you say you take IRL.

To the poster, I really am so very sorry you went through that and that justice wasn't served. It's awful Flowers

Many people doubt it so it shows an air of that with the attitude. I've been forced to show his confession before now and been called a liar so this is mild in comparison to the abuse I've had by saying what happened so it was water off a duck's back.

Thank you though for showing them how to respond in a decant way and thank you for your kind words.

Felix125 · 03/04/2023 13:37

I am very sorry to hear what has happened and I am part of the process trying to increases the conviction rate and get as many perpetrators behind bars.

So, forgive me if I didn't say it before, WeeWillyWinkie9, but it must have been an horrendous thing that you had to experience and the treatment you got by the police sergeant was not acceptable. I hope you complained and they were sacked.

As I said before - We need to listen to the survivor/victims more. What do they want from the investigation

The quota you referred to is not a police thing - which is why I have not experienced it and i have certainly not been told to 'not crime' a rape as it takes us over the quota

From reading the article, it appears that the quota is part of the CPS threshold of which cases to take to court. They will only take the ones which have a realistic prospect of conviction.

Do you think it would help that all reported rape cases where the victim/survivor wants to proceed, should automatically be heard at court?

But what happens to the cases where there is overwhelming evidence against the prosecution case?

Do we need to consider a closed court - so the victim/survivor is cross examined by the defence solicitor in a private room away from the court - perhaps done on another day. This can then be transcribed later to the court during the trial.

LexMitior · 04/04/2023 08:16

@DdraigGoch - that looks like a very particular Scottish issue. Alarming because it looks like someone effectively changed the law on sentencing without changing it. They wrote a new guideline. That's not law. Something is happening in Scotland where the SNP are abusing their power.

I'm not saying it's not bad in England, but Scotland has just changed its sentencing law so that punishment isn't an aspect for the under 25s. This guidance will apply to all of those under 25, sex offenders, rapists and violent offenders.

PearlClutzsche · 04/04/2023 08:39

LexMitior · 04/04/2023 08:16

@DdraigGoch - that looks like a very particular Scottish issue. Alarming because it looks like someone effectively changed the law on sentencing without changing it. They wrote a new guideline. That's not law. Something is happening in Scotland where the SNP are abusing their power.

I'm not saying it's not bad in England, but Scotland has just changed its sentencing law so that punishment isn't an aspect for the under 25s. This guidance will apply to all of those under 25, sex offenders, rapists and violent offenders.

That is shocking and terrifying. Why do the SNP hate women so much?

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 10:32

DdraigGoch · 04/04/2023 08:09

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-65164041

Rape is now de facto decriminalised in Scotland.

WTAF???!!!

AdamRyan · 04/04/2023 10:33

Even if the law hadn't changed, 4 years for raping a child would still be disgusting

sunstreaming · 04/04/2023 10:44

Of course rape is a horrific crime. It is also notoriously difficult to get a conviction in some cases, due to the nature of the crime. But I think it's a misunderstanding to say this poster means the Police downgrading the its impact. What I think they mean is that you don't report rape which happens yesterday by dialing 999 and expecting a blue lighted Police car to attend. there would be no point and it could mean that the woman who was dialling 999 at the sae time from the actual scene of a crime was ignored. The Police are extremely underfunded, so are the Courts. But as long a some people bame the wrong sector for the problem, it stops anything getting improved.

Ktime · 04/04/2023 11:44

sunstreaming · 04/04/2023 10:44

Of course rape is a horrific crime. It is also notoriously difficult to get a conviction in some cases, due to the nature of the crime. But I think it's a misunderstanding to say this poster means the Police downgrading the its impact. What I think they mean is that you don't report rape which happens yesterday by dialing 999 and expecting a blue lighted Police car to attend. there would be no point and it could mean that the woman who was dialling 999 at the sae time from the actual scene of a crime was ignored. The Police are extremely underfunded, so are the Courts. But as long a some people bame the wrong sector for the problem, it stops anything getting improved.

So for example the 13yo girl who was raped by Sean Hogg - if she went to the police station and saw this sign, you expect her, a traumatised survivor of rape, to understand how the rape she went through has to be reported, as emergency vs non emergency?

Felix125 · 04/04/2023 14:10

Its a very badly worded sign, but consider this

It depends if it has been a historic report of rape. Some people report rapes that have happened years/months ago. They were not ready to report before - but are now. If that's the case, they will be outside of the forensic window.

Some victims/survivors also prefer to report it by writing it down rather than phoning it in. I think that they should be given every option to be able to report it by any method they feel comfortable with.

The notice is not saying that all rapes have to be reported this way - but they can if the victim/survivor feels that this is a better way for them to do it.

There are lots of reasons why victims/survivors may find it easier to report on line and not via a phone call.

They may be in a controlling DV relationship and not able to speak openly on a phone.

They may not want to talk about it on a phone call with a stranger, but prefer to write it themselves

They may live in a care facility and not be able to speak openly in the premises - especially if the suspect is on the care staff

They may be a school pupil who doesn't want to make a phone call from home (suspect may be living at their address). Also can't make a phone call from school in case they are overheard.

I think its good that we can give them an option of how they want to report it.

I agree that it is badly worded - and if it is within the forensic window it should be an emergency. We always deal with them as an emergency when they are reported - and then develop the investigation strategy after this.

TooBigForMyBoots · 04/04/2023 21:20

monsteramunch · 02/04/2023 23:37

Your reply to a poster sharing their experience of rape isn't very empathetic or kind tbh, instead it's formal and cold. A 'sorry to hear what happened to you' or similar would be a better reflection of the victim centred approach you say you take IRL.

To the poster, I really am so very sorry you went through that and that justice wasn't served. It's awful Flowers

That's the police for you @monsteramunch.Angry

Carla786 · 21/03/2026 03:05

Monstermoomoo · 30/03/2023 22:59

To be fair, it's the same everywhere. In Sweden they've recently let off a man as the girl he had fingered (I think she's 10, so very young and definitely not in any way, shape or form consensual) had essentially said he put his finger in her noonie, which apparently is very ambiguous as he possibly didn't penetrate her as noonie could be either vulva or vagina. So benefit of the doubt etc... 🤯 Absolutely disgraceful

I know this is an old thread but I think this should be clarified.

Under Swedish law, rape required proof of penetration of the vagina.
Because the girl used the word 'snippa', the court said it could not be certain beyond reasonable doubt that penetration of the vagina had occurred rather than touching inside the vulva area.
Because the prosecution had charged only rape, the court said it could not instead convict him of sexual assault of a child, which has a different legal definition.
So the rape conviction was overturned.
The ruling caused major controversy in Sweden. Many people argued the court had interpreted the word too narrowly.

It's still a terrible situation but it doesn't mean the court thought nothing wrong had happened.

New posts on this thread. Refresh page