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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to think rape is now legal in the UK?

215 replies

verdantverdure · 29/03/2023 21:04

If there's almost no chance of a rapist being caught and punished then rape is legal, right?

Less than 0.7% are ever convicted.

Less than 1.4% are ever even charged

I'm not sure this is a government that cares about women, you guys.

OP posts:
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10
JulieHoney · 30/03/2023 10:44

Given the prevalence of violent, abusive misogynistic men on the police - see recent report on the Met - rape victims are rightly unwilling to trust the police.

See also the reports of “sex regret” and other myths about rape many police officers hold.

Then the vanishingly low numbers actually charged.

Then the over 4 year wait for court time.

Of that 1.4% of reported rapes that are charged, Raab claims roughly 68% get a conviction, so about 0.8% of reported rapes.

From a rapist point of view, it’s as near legal as damn it.

Chippy1234 · 30/03/2023 11:28

That is why I think the Corrie storyline isnt going to get a conviction. If it does it isnt real life.

beguilingeyes · 30/03/2023 11:33

Rape seems to be the only crime where the victim is more or less on trial..the pervading attitudes of a lot of men and the police are heavily weighted, it seems to me, to disbelieving women e.g. a lot of them believe that false accusations are rife.
Then recently we've had the whole revolting 'rough sex' defense for murder. The idea that anyone could get away with that is just awful.

LakieLady · 30/03/2023 11:41

L1ttledrummergirl · 30/03/2023 00:04

At PMqs today, Raab said that rapes were down.

So that's ok then.

Probably because a lot are going unreported, because women know it's virtually pointless.

Peppadog · 30/03/2023 11:43

Course it's not legal. It's very difficult to prosecute yes because we live in a country where you are innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt.
Of course that makes it difficult to prosecute, it's often one person's word against anothers.
Would you want your innocent son going to prison for something he didn't do? It's really not straightforward.

ATerrorofLeftovers · 30/03/2023 11:58

It’s been de facto legal for many years. We have a legal system that still judges women for things like the way they dress or having sexual relationships with other people to the extent that that apparently ‘proves’ they may have consented. It’s like we’re still living in the 1950s.

Original poster
verdantverdure · 30/03/2023 12:14

Rape's definitely difficult to prove if you tell rape victims to report it online and wait for someone to get round to ringing them instead of swooping in for the physical evidence and contemporaneous account asap.

OP posts:
L1ttledrummergirl · 30/03/2023 12:32

LakieLady · 30/03/2023 11:41

Probably because a lot are going unreported, because women know it's virtually pointless.

Show quote history

Exactly my point. But the government attitude is not matching the reality (again).

Manichean · 30/03/2023 12:33

Legal, especially if the rapist is a copper.

Dodecaheidyin · 30/03/2023 12:33

What does the vast MN users think should be done?

@Hellsmovie Call me radical but the men who rape could grow a spine and stop raping.

TwittleBee · 30/03/2023 12:39

There's massive failings in the system and I'm shocked at what doesn't count as evidence in rape cases.

When I was sexually assaulted, I had cctv evidence of him entering my room (so he couldn't deny being there). I had evidence of the drugs within my blood stream (so I wasn't in a suitable state to consent). I also had a text from him and various other people where he had confirmed his actions (so admittance by him!). But apparently none of that would stand up in a court and it wasn't in the public interest to pursue.

Hellsmovie · 30/03/2023 12:41

Dodecaheidyin · 30/03/2023 12:33

What does the vast MN users think should be done?

@Hellsmovie Call me radical but the men who rape could grow a spine and stop raping.

Well yeah obviously. Unfortunately it's not a perfect world we live .

I meant to increase the conviction rate.

Anything constructive to say on that?

TwittleBee · 30/03/2023 12:45

What does the vast MN users think should be done?

A victim should be treated with empathy and helped. I had all my electronic devices and my house (the attack happened at a hotel room not my home) searched by the police. I felt violated by them as well as my attacker. The questions I was asked very inappropriate and again I felt sick at what I was asked to go into detail.

A woman officer should be available if the victim wants a woman to be investigating and leading the case.

Rapes and sexual assaults should be in the public interest to pursue, I don't understand why they aren't always.

What makes Evidence suitable for a conviction should be the same across all crimes.

TwittleBee · 30/03/2023 12:47

Also sufficient support is needed out there for victims. As my attacker didn't get convicted, didn't even go to court, I lost a lot of friends as they all sided with him. I felt like utter shit, people thought I had made it up and I didn't know how to deal with that

This was on top of dealing with the PTSD that the attack left me with. I asked my GP for help but there wasn't anything available. She directed me to a charity which could only offer support so far.

User135644 · 30/03/2023 12:48

BMW6 · 29/03/2023 23:54

Well yes, because the accused rapist may have an absolute cast iron alibi. Like the recent case where a woman accused several men and it was proved she was outside the UK at the very moment she claimed to have been raped in the UK.

Those are facts. If two people are in a room together and one says the other raped them, what have you got to prove or refute the allegation?

Show quote history

There's few things lower than a rapist but the minority of women who make false accusations and lie about rape really don't help women.

Any man (including your loved ones) could be accused of rape at any time. The burden of proof ends up falling on the accuser because everyone has the right to a fair trial.

Voting for Tory governments who cut policing and courts don't help either.

L1ttledrummergirl · 30/03/2023 12:51

Dodecaheidyin · 30/03/2023 12:33

What does the vast MN users think should be done?

@Hellsmovie Call me radical but the men who rape could grow a spine and stop raping.

Women need to know before it happens, that if it happens, it's not their fault.
Women carry no blame if they are raped.
Women carry no shame if they are raped.
Women need to know that if they are raped, they call the police straight away and they will be believed.
Women need to know that the police will do everything possible from the minute they call to gather evidence for a prosecution.
Sadly, Women need to know ahead of any rape occurring that any evidence will be on their clothes and body and need to be preserved.
Women should be able to get a fast prosecution, they should not have to face the perpetrator in court.

It doesn't matter what you are wearing, how much you've had to drink (except intoxicated when the law should be unable to consent) or if you've previously slept with an entire football team. These arguments have no place in a court of law.

Right now, as a society, "men should stop raping", should be the ideal, we have a long way to go to get there.

Maybe we need to start a rapeline along the lines of childlike where women can get support through the process. Who can advise from when women first call until the outcome of a trial? Who can get the message into schools so young women feel empowered to speak and young men taught consequences.

Dodecaheidyin · 30/03/2023 12:52

Anything constructive to say on that?

@Hellsmovie I wasn't having a go at you.

L1ttledrummergirl · 30/03/2023 12:54

@TwittleBee I'm sorry that happened, in my head, those circumstances should be more than enough for conviction. Flowers
You only have to look at the Ched Evans case to see how rape cases are treated in the legal system.
Women have been let down massively by the legal system.

NotDrowningJustCrowing · 30/03/2023 13:15

@TwittleBee I'm so sorry that you had to endure all of that and thank you for sharing because what you've told us belies the notion that it's so hard to prove. Sometimes it can be but your horrible experience was not hard to prove but it went nowhere. You're not part of the statistics because it was taken out of your hands. It's bloody outrageous.

Deathbyfluffy · 30/03/2023 13:18

It's terrible that women have to feel unsafe in society, and that figures are that low.
Part of the problem are the women who make up rape allegations - it means that less serious attention is given when needed.

Be angry at rapists (as we all are) and also at those who 'cry wolf' and make the rest of women less likely to be heard when it does happen.

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/03/2023 13:20

@Hellsmovie properly functioning police, forensics and justice system would definitely help.

Brefugee · 30/03/2023 13:22

. So of course phone records are invaluable in establishing previous contact if any, and the nature.

is the accused rapist's phone also confiscated?

tbh in the UK I'd probably not bother reporting a rape either

NotDrowningJustCrowing · 30/03/2023 13:25

To all of those who insist it's so hard to prove. Yes. Often it is. We live in a culture that on the one hand pretends to want women to be free and safe and on the other blames them when they don't take on the full and onerous burden of making themselves safe at all times. That is, you're doing it wrong if you get drunk, if you dress "incorrectly", if you're out late alone, if, if, if.

Things were even more openly judgemental in the 1980s and rape no easier to prove and yet the conviction rate was higher. We are clearly facing a crisis or slap bang in the middle of one. Why are we allegedly more open to women's rights to safety in the 21st century but worse at convicting rapists than we were in the hugely sexist 80s? Why have better procedures lead to conviction rates falling decade by decade.

Greenfairydust · 30/03/2023 13:34

Obviously not legalised but clearly minimised and allowed to go unpunished...

Truly appalling situation.

I did not report my assault because I know full well there is zero chance of the perpetrator being convicted as I knew him and initially agreed to date him. I could picture what would happen in court (if it even got that far...) and knew it would be his word against mine that consent had been withdrawn.

As a society If we continue not to be willing to seriously address toxic masculinity/entitlement, sexism and misogyny that teach men that women are just on this earth to serve and please them and take rape seriously as a crime, men will continue to assault women and get away with it.