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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think rape is now legal in the UK?

215 replies

verdantverdure · 29/03/2023 21:04

If there's almost no chance of a rapist being caught and punished then rape is legal, right?

Less than 0.7% are ever convicted.

Less than 1.4% are ever even charged

I'm not sure this is a government that cares about women, you guys.

OP posts:
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10
carriedout · 30/03/2023 00:04

The Tories have defunded the police, they don't care about the victims of crime.

Yes rape is basically decriminalised.

L1ttledrummergirl · 30/03/2023 00:04

At PMqs today, Raab said that rapes were down.

So that's ok then.

Original poster
verdantverdure · 30/03/2023 00:05

lljkk · 30/03/2023 00:01

On that logic you may as well declare that speeding in a car, trespassing, fly tipping, shoplifting, petty theft at work, vandalism, drinking under age, cannabis use, benefit fraud, harassment ... are also legal too.

Yeah.

OP posts:
Original poster
verdantverdure · 30/03/2023 00:05

L1ttledrummergirl · 30/03/2023 00:04

At PMqs today, Raab said that rapes were down.

So that's ok then.

Reported rapes perhaps.

Why bother?

OP posts:
Wedoronron · 30/03/2023 00:08

Kanaloa · 29/03/2023 21:15

I didn’t miss the point. I just think it’s pointless making random comments. If the discussion had been ‘aibu to think we need better structure in law enforcement for xyz’ then I’d have agreed wholeheartedly. Random comments like ‘rape is legal! If conviction rates are low that means it’s legal’ just makes you look like you can’t have a proper discussion and makes it much easier for others to dismiss your point as hysterical/idiotic/stupid.

Show quote history

O think being hysterical at this point is just. My family member was raped and murdered 72 years ago. I think they had better conviction rates then than now.

Beaglesonlyplease · 30/03/2023 00:17

Part of the reason police won’t put rape or sexual assault claims to CPS is the belief that without “objective “ evidence there’s no chance of a successful prosecution.
this is what I think needs to change.
In cases where there is CCTV and or rape kits performed with DNA profiles it should be a given it will go to court.
A judge or a jury are perfectly capable of assessing evidence without either form of “proof” and should be allowed to perform that task.
Cuts to services is of course an issue, and a big one at that but part of the problem lies with the notion that so called “he said/she said “ cases aren’t “provable” which people equate with “unjudge-able” which are not the same thing

iaapap · 30/03/2023 00:25

verdantverdure · 29/03/2023 23:51

I have a friend who has been waiting for years to go to court. That's down to funding. There's a massive backlog.

A government could do something about that. A government could put enough police on the beat so that police forces could attend a recent rape rather than asking victims to report it via a website and wait to be contacted.

Physical evidence needs to be collected before a victim can have a bath or change clothes. If it's not her case has no chance.

A government could spend enough money so that evidence wasn't lost as often as it is.

Show quote history

Whilst that is true, the government don’t spend money on lots of essentials (clearly rape is an essential). People die waiting for medical treatment for example. It’s “just” one part of the entire country becoming non functional. I don’t know the answer, but I do agree that we need more police, more court officers etc. but we also need more doctors. More nurses. More hospitals. More teachers. Everything is broken.

JudgeRudy · 30/03/2023 00:47

Ktime · 29/03/2023 21:09

Way to miss the point Kanaloa.

It may as well we legal OP. YANBU.

I think the point OP intended to highlight has been understood. The reply has accurately responded to what was actually said. I'm guessing their point was stop employong ridiculous and click bait.

DonnaBanana · 30/03/2023 00:53

Ktime · 29/03/2023 21:09

Way to miss the point Kanaloa.

It may as well we legal OP. YANBU.

It may as well be legal? That’s a horrible thing to say. I don’t want it to be legalised even if it’s poorly prosecuted.

TooBigForMyBoots · 30/03/2023 00:57

YANBU OP. Prosecuting rape has always been difficult, but the current rate of prosecutions and ability to get a Guilty verdict are disgusting.

Rape has been practically decriminalised in the UK.Angry

FrosteeFlake · 30/03/2023 01:15

MrsTerryPratchett · 29/03/2023 21:22

In the same way that drugs are gradually decriminalised over time with a lack of policing, so is rape. And considering how many men admit they would rape if they could get away with it, it's chilling.

What women do with information is another matter. Young women are being trained to consent to more and more and expect less and less pleasure. When does the tipping point come where it's simply not worth shagging men?

Rape appears to be technically illegal whilst being effectively unpoliced.

Very well put and very true

MrsTerryPratchett · 30/03/2023 01:18

verdantverdure · 30/03/2023 00:05

Reported rapes perhaps.

Why bother?

Show quote history

And when the police have the track record they have for misogyny and sexual violence, reported rapes would go down.

If you're a chicken you don't report the fox to the wolf.

PogoThePunk · 30/03/2023 01:29

It might as well be legal.
A lot of females are too scared to report it and a lot of those who do might as well not have bothered for all the justice they get.
The whole attitude towards it is sickening.
In 2023, we still have victim blaming just to add to the disgrace of it.

araiwa · 30/03/2023 06:49

Yabu

It's a completely moronic thing to say

It minimises the victims

It devalues all the other good arguments about what could be done to increase the number of arrests and convictions.

It's the equivalent of twaw. By saying it you lose the support of reasonable people

lordloveadog · 30/03/2023 07:15

YANBU. Rape has effectively been decriminalized in the UK.

Just like possession of cannabis was. Technically illegal, but the police turn a blind eye and the CPS doesn't put cases forward.

Brokendaughter · 30/03/2023 07:20

The last time I was raped I didn't even bother reporting it.

What's the point when the Police are more likely to be rapists than to get rapists into court?

L1ttledrummergirl · 30/03/2023 08:49

verdantverdure · 30/03/2023 00:05

Reported rapes perhaps.

Why bother?

Show quote history

That was my point. The government thinks everything is fine, so why make changes.

Raab let women know where they stand with that comment. Unprotected and alone.

UWhatNow · 30/03/2023 08:57

As far as rapists are concerned yes, they can get away with it Scott free. It’s scary for women and those of us with daughters. Mind you, if anyone touched my girls I’d happily go down for meting out my own justice.

Dotjones · 30/03/2023 09:13

Rape is not legal in the UK and in my opinion it should remain illegal.

Conviction rates are so low because it's a difficult thing to prove. Our legal system requires proof beyond reasonable doubt and it's hard to prove a sexual encounter was rape because there are rarely any witnesses.

Every time there's an Eleanor Williams it makes it more likely that genuine victims will not be believed.

3littlebeans · 30/03/2023 09:25

Has anyone seen the Jodie Comer play Prima facie?

We watched it in cinema and on national theatre at home.

It is incredible and heartbreaking but about all the things this thread is about. It is so good.

loislovesstewie · 30/03/2023 09:25

More to the point some rapists/abusers are having the matter dealt with by means of community resolution ( I think that is what it's called). In other words they say sorry and that's it. So, rape a woman, say sorry and that's it. I don't think it's even recorded as a crime IYSWIM.

LaBaDeeLaBaDa · 30/03/2023 09:41

Dotjones · 30/03/2023 09:13

Rape is not legal in the UK and in my opinion it should remain illegal.

Conviction rates are so low because it's a difficult thing to prove. Our legal system requires proof beyond reasonable doubt and it's hard to prove a sexual encounter was rape because there are rarely any witnesses.

Every time there's an Eleanor Williams it makes it more likely that genuine victims will not be believed.

It is just not true that it's an impossibly difficult crime to prove. This is a popular myth.

Look at the work that's been done in this area - it repeatedly identifies the same problems:

  • insufficient numbers of specialist teams (something like 20% of police forces don't have a specialist rape or sexual assault team; those that do don't have them 24/7)
  • inadvertent incentives for police to discontinue, citing insufficient evidence (because the CPS, in a well intentioned reform, require a full file of evidence before charging decisions made rather than a police assessment like other crimes)
  • loss of trained and experienced officers over last ten years and over reliance on new young ones
  • cutbacks in forensic services
  • misogynistic attitudes of police officers
  • lack of social and mental health support for victims
  • long waits to trial due to courts backlog

That's just to cite a few. We don't need to wring our hands and give up, we could actually invest in services so one of the worst crimes that can be committed isn't effectively decriminalised

Original poster
verdantverdure · 30/03/2023 09:52

Exactly that @LaBaDeeLaBaDa

OP posts:
Hellsmovie · 30/03/2023 10:28

What does the vast MN users think should be done?

Believe all the accusers without investigating ?
bias female only jury's?

Unfortunately It's just one of those things that's hard to prove.