Are things harder for millennials?

[squidwid]

Many of my friends don't own houses and they're in their 30s. They did everything that society asked of them and still they're not making headway.

I know so many elderly people that live in 4 bedroom homes worth £400k plus. Obviously there is nothing wrong with that but families should be able to afford those houses so things can move on. No one can afford to buy them...

True that the political and societal change that occurred with thatcher has generally screwed people

But just note that the uk boomer population did not overwhelmingly vote her in - even there less than 44% voted her in

Which means more than half that generation didn't want the change we have seen

And there was a huge north south split

The lack of Proportional representation doesn't help anyone

I think the main difference between us is that we just got on with it because we expected nothing more, and didn't have some entitled attitude to what we thought we were owed out of life

Is it actually entitled to want to be able to buy a modest home with your partner, when both of you are working ft and bringing in a reasonable salary? And is it attitude to be disappointed or even pissed off that this isn't possible?

they need to get on board with the narrative
Listen to yourself.
Do you think that everyone of a certain age has the same mindset?
Do you think older people set up the current situation deliberately?

It’s supply and demand. The population of this country was 56 million in 1980. It’s is not early 70 million. Try building houses, or anything for that matter, anywhere. And watch the nibmys come out with their placards. It’s not that complicated. You have an abundance of something and value/price drops. You make something scarce, the price rockets.

If the economic mismanagement and ensuing inflation in that last 3 years hasn’t shown this, nothing will.

I was simply using a 3bed semi as a comparison on South vs North housing prices in general, not in terms of what Millenials can afford vs Boomers.

At no point did I say they were starter homes.

These threads come up fairly regularly. The point is this - every generation has it's challenges. Unless you are very privileged indeed eg Cameron, Johnson, Sunak et al, then you will have had it tough in some respect. Swings, roundabouts and other clichés.

The push for tertiary education did us Millennials no favours in my opinion. Suddenly a lot more people were living away from home and established social networks, focusing on careers in expensive cities, taking years to meet a partner, and not being in a position to buy until much later, by which time prices had gone up.

The people who stayed in my small town, by contrast, coupled up, bought houses and had kids a lot younger.

My dps definitely had it easier. Mum hardly worked, big house, good pensions. They were given family money and inherited in their late 30's when the money was actually useful. They are now late 80's and have barely used that money to help family. So one of the issues is old people hoarding money and then paying IHT.
All wages need to go up but if they do will those millennials stop consuming so much more than they need and save up for a house? I do feel for them but they want to blame everyone else and don't take any responsibility. If I or someone else offers ten solutions they will have a hundred solutions why they can't.

I'm a Xennial and have been told that without a significant cash injection from a 3rd party I won't ever save hard enough or fast enough to raise a deposit to buy a house. I'm a high rate tax payer.

Something is very very wrong here!

So what’s your point? Because in the norteast, people can still buy starter homes for around £100k.

And for Gen Z it’s even worse, because of the debts going up since the Millennials’ day.

Like all generalisations, that’s not true. The inheritors of boomers’ wealth won’t be worse off.

Fraggle I do agree there is some truth in this. We have a much higher expectation of standard of living than previous generations had. And we don't think of it as high expectations because of it being "normal" ie everyone around us is doing it too.

But the reality is that those things are relatively cheaper, the dresses, the TVs. I could add up the luxuries that we've had that probably seem extravagant to older generations and in no way would it add up to a house deposit. Even with interest. It might have done ten years ago.

I am different to most of my generation because I had my first child early and that has been a triple weight as in meaning that we needed a larger house (and so larger deposit) and in constricting income so that it was more difficult to save and therefore also delaying the time to buy so that house prices have risen even more. This in particular feels like a carrot on a stick always being jerked just further away as soon as it seems like it's reachable.

People I know who did not have children or who have not had them yet have been able to buy smaller properties, earlier, even without parental help. But most have had parental help.

It is when you do nothing about it. Yes. That "boom" wasn't created for us - we fought for decent wages, jobs and equality. My parents couldn't afford a fucking "modest home" either! Those were the "bad old days" when workers had to fight for everything. For generations since nobody wanted to fight, they were too busy accumulating. So it slowly got eroded. Take a look at France if you want to know what "disappointed" and "pissed off" looks like. If you roll over every time your wages are cut, your pension age rises, etc etc., then that is what you get. Right now where I work, everyone is whinging yet again about the crap pay offer, which represents a real wage cut of 30.3% since 2010. Are they voting to strike? No they aren't. Just as they haven't since 2010. In this world you don't get anything unless you fight for it. That was something that we knew. Very few now do - they think it's given. Nothing in life is given, it's taken or it's lost.

Oh how generous of you. I don't think you are lazy - I have no idea who you are. Maybe you are, maybe you aren't. But my parents had nothing (and nor did anyone we grew up with) and we had our own "narrative" that didn't involve being helped out by anyone or left houses or anything else. I don't think we had it easy, and I don't think millenials have it easy. I think the main difference between us is that we just got on with it because we expected nothing more, and didn't have some entitled attitude to what we thought we were owed out of life. But to be fair, outside the rarified atmosphere of MN I don't know any millenials who think like I so often see here either. They get on with it because they have to. Just like we did. Just like those who went before did.

As for house prices, we don't dictate those - I won't go into the mechanics of it because obviously it's much better to blame previous generations for things than to actually understand the world around you, but try capitalism out for an explanation. We didn't invent it.
*

So your parents had nothing, so you also didn't expect much from life. Our parents did have something though. My parents came from nothing and they worked hard and got something. Is it that ridiculous that I would also expect to work hard and be able to get something ? Isn't it wrong that it's harder for me to achieve similar things to my parents, because things are so much more difficult nowadays ?

When you come from nothing, you don't expect it. I came from very little but saw my parents achieve a lot. Is it really so entitled of me to have grown up thinking that if I also work hard like them, I can also achieve something ? I don't think it is.*

But we are actually striking. Teachers, nurses, junior doctors, train drivers, postal staff, refuse staff.

The boomers I know (I know, NABALT) can't stand that these industries are striking. They think it's a disgrace.

You perhaps shouldn't hang around with them then - I don't know any that think it's a disgrace.

Believe me I keep it to a minimum.

No, it isn't.
The earnings in the past reflected on whether you could afford to buy a property or not, just the same as today.
The property prices put most of them out of ordinary people's reach, which is why most of us started with a cheap property and worked out way up the ladder.
I'm fed up of hearing today's generation whining about how the previous generations had it easier as far as buying a property goes.
The problem now is that they want to go straight into that four bedroom house, or a new build.
So all you hear is whining about how it's not affordable.
We all had to work and save hard just to afford a basic two bedroom terrace.

As the oldest boomers are only 78 the funding of care homes isn’t yet an issue. I’m fine with the house funding my care, should I need it. I don’t want to live in whatever shithole the council deems suitable. Paying gives you choice.

I'm 59, living in a house I (almost ) own.

I think these discussions get bitter because when I bought my first home ...

It was a grotty flat with no central heating
I had no fridge for the first month
No furniture, slept on the floor to begin with, and then second hand.
No car, no evenings out
No holidays for the first 10 years
I fitted the kitchen myself
It was very very tight. Not easy at all.

My nephew says we had it easy and complains about not having a home, yet he has a car, a dog, two holidays a year. He doesn't get it. His expectations are very high.

It is difficult for the current generation. We didn't have student debt. But we also couldn't get student loans so we worked through our degrees (if we went at all).

Every generation has its battles, and lack of knowledge causes friction. Yet most people work it out eventually.

It is, because they begrudge their parents selling their houses. They see "their" inheritances disappearing.

Yes and no. But there is an awful lot of ignorance about the challenges millennial face from older generations.

Many go to uni and come out with huge debt. Mine was 32k for a 4 year stem degree. Worth it because it gets me into a better paid job, but I lose money (£200 atm) each month to pay it back.

Also pay historically high rents and get started on pension as soon as leaving uni. Still am sensible with money and save a few hundred pounds a month (let's say £400, which is probably a representative average for me) towards house deposit.

Average size of house deposit for first home in UK is £57000. Let's say I buy with a partner, so I need to save £28500 plus fees myself. That takes me 6 years, with nothing else happening to disrupt saving. I am now 28 and thinking about children, so a starter home makes no sense hence lots of people trying to stretch to a 3 bed which makes long term financial sense. And I am a millennial that has had a smooth ride and did everything "right", by luck more than judgement.

Older generations who one one hand say "they just want everything on a plate these days, we started out in shitty one bed flats and worked up" and then on the other "you're leaving it a bit late to have kids, I had my two in my early 20s" just don't get it. Millennial did do their time in shitty property, they just had to rent it rather than buy!

No one's saying previous generations had it easier, we are saying they are making it harder for millennials and beyond.

When even a "grotty flat" in a run down area (which is what I'm looking at) is out of reach (minimum £270k here) is it any wonder we are angry?