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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Are things harder for millennials?

650 replies

squidwid · 27/03/2023 08:18

Many of my friends don't own houses and they're in their 30s. They did everything that society asked of them and still they're not making headway.

I know so many elderly people that live in 4 bedroom homes worth £400k plus. Obviously there is nothing wrong with that but families should be able to afford those houses so things can move on. No one can afford to buy them...

OP posts:
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pixie5121 · 28/03/2023 09:58

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request.

coffeemoon · 28/03/2023 10:01

When some of our grandparents were children, buying a TV was a big event. The whole street would gather in one house to watch the moon landings. Now you have a house with 4 TVs in it, plus four laptops and four mobile and no one blinks an eye.

@ThatFraggle That's simply because technology moves on and becomes cheaper/ more available over time, not because people are more extravagent.

If you went back 20-30 years before that it would have been a huge luxury to have an iron.

JassyRadlett · 28/03/2023 10:01

Boomineck · 28/03/2023 09:16

This thread has been an interesting read.

Neither of my now deceased grandparents could have bought their own house, despite working, and lived in council houses. I don’t think back then that ‘owning’ a home was the be all - it was having a decent home. With the Thatcher sell offs and hers and subsequent government failures in this area, that societal shift will be monumental to put right, if ever.

The push for going to university for everyone resulted in property being needed for students but also once having left home, young people tend to carry on renting, getting work away from their parents etc. 40 years ago, it was definitely more the norm to live at home, not having gone to uni, get a job, and if you met someone likelihood would be both people could save hugely for a couple of years or so, basically putting every pound they could go saving, whilst staying living in the home you perhaps grew up in. People didn’t so much buy a property alone. People didn’t live together so much in rented flats say when they were early in a relationship, which of course makes any real saving so difficult. Many people renting just carried in renting and that was ok as home ownership wasn’t always the main thing. And another societal shift is that in earlier generations it was more the norm to find a home, get married, have kids younger than now. Again just societal shifts across different generations, and comparing then and now doesn’t really help the now.

And expectations. I am nowhere near London and hear about the shocking prices of property vs wages. I just had a little browse and came across many ads for flats in London less than 100k, including brand new ones. What am I missing as (admittedly to my quick google search) these looked fine as a first time property. Admittedly for a single person or couple, not families.

Those flats are shared ownership aren't they? So you pay rent + mortgage.

Ginmonkeyagain · 28/03/2023 10:09

@Boomineck I would be very very surprised if there were any £100k flats in London. The adverts you are seeing are likely to be shared ownership - eg social housing flats where you can buy part of the flat (usually 25% as a start) with a mortgage and then make up the rest of the price in monthly rent.

JassyRadlett · 28/03/2023 10:09

If you went back 20-30 years before that it would have been a huge luxury to have an iron.

Bloody millennials, wasting their money on electricity and indoor plumbing, how do they ever expect to afford a deposit if they're not willing to walk to the communal pump for their water?

tiger2691 · 28/03/2023 10:21

Yep, it's a shit show for them: no pensions, virtually no homes - whether council, housing association, mortgaged, or rented. No jobs for life, massive student debt, expensive and unreliable public transport, blah blah blah...

Ahh, but they have the internet and a smart phone, so getting a shag is a lot easier than in my day. Let them eat turnips and shag.

JassyRadlett · 28/03/2023 10:25

Unfortunately we’re a nation of NIMBYs so not enough new housing is built and, as importantly, not enough good transport infrastructure is built to make long distance commutes viable.

This comment has really struck me and I keep coming back to it, because I think one of our big issues is that there is in the UK (and the anglophone world - there was a brilliant FT data story about this recently) that ever outward is the only way to achieve affordable housing. There's a deep bias towards houses and away from flats and a huge part of that has to be that by and large our record of building really liveable flats is extraordinarily poor - we either convert old houses cheaply and poorly or build stack 'em high developments.

Outside a few urban exceptions we don't have a lot of purpose built flats in that 'sweet spot' of 3-5 storeys high in the same way as a lot of cities on the continent mastered early and remain desirable for urban family living. Those areas that did high-quality flats well - mansion flats in London, the better tenements in Edinburgh and Glasgow - remain sought after. But no one is replicating them because there aren't financial incentives for developers to do this rather than high rise buildings with tiny rooms.

I was lucky enough to find myself in a flat share in a mansion flat when I first moved to London and it was amazing. Far better suited to family living than my current (very nice) suburban semi; it had gloriously big rooms - three massive bedrooms and two smaller box room sized ones, a good communal garden, storage in the cellar, energy efficient, small enough to know your neighbours and have a sense of community but big enough not to feel cramped. A really different way of thinking about higher-density living.

But instead we build ever outwards, and when we build upwards it's in ways that are less desirable for families and long-term living, and it further cements the bias towards houses being 'proper homes' and flats being second rate.

Ginmonkeyagain · 28/03/2023 10:29

That is true. We own a two bed flat in a four storey thirties block. It is large and spacious with a decent length balcony, built in cupboards, shared gardens, garages and parking spaces. The floor soace is as large as some two bed houes in the area.

It is a very liveable block and we have a number of families and older people here who have lived here a very long time.

TheHoover · 28/03/2023 10:30

@JassyRadlett
far Asian capitals such as Tokyo, Beijing etc build both upwards and outwards. people who have gardens are in the extreme minority

Ginmonkeyagain · 28/03/2023 10:31

On noise as well the block is u shaped so there are stairwells, lifts and cupboards between most flats, which limits noise transmission. We don't share walls with any other flat which means is is blissfully quiet - we can hear the birds in the morning and litle else.

Boomineck · 28/03/2023 10:31

@Ginmonkeyagain like I said I only had a quick look and admitted no knowledge of London except what I hear/read, so was clearly missing those details. Thanks for pointing out- happy to be educated!

TottyKnickers · 28/03/2023 10:37

BrainOnFire · 27/03/2023 08:56

I agree OP. My parents are still living in the family home even though my brother and I moved out 25 years ago. I think they should downsize (although to be fair it's a terraced house not a mansion, but it does have four (small) bedrooms). My PILs only moved out of their family home last year due to ill health.

I keep hearing elderly people saying "well of course they want to stay in their own home" and rejecting other living options, with no acknowledgement of either the privilege of owning their own home in the first place or the inconvenience they're causing the younger generation by hanging on to these houses. I really hope that I'll be more pragmatic about it when I get older!

So if they downsize to a cheap flat, again they are taking it from the youngsters, so the older generation can't win!

Ginmonkeyagain · 28/03/2023 10:38

@Boomineck no problem - if there were £100K flats in London we wouldn't be in this pickle!

JassyRadlett · 28/03/2023 10:39

TheHoover · 28/03/2023 10:30

@JassyRadlett
far Asian capitals such as Tokyo, Beijing etc build both upwards and outwards. people who have gardens are in the extreme minority

Yes - but that's a style of living that is culturally unattractive to many in the UK and presenting it as a choice between a Tokyo/Singapore-style high rise and a new build estate with a long commute then becomes a straightforward choice; I think we need to look a little closer to home for ways to increase and improve our long-term housing urban density without building in mid-30s urban flight and long commutes that require huge amounts of new transport infrastructure.

NeshNamechanger · 28/03/2023 10:43

@pixie5121 Most of those on 25-30K I know who bought as Millenials cut their spending and maximised their earning.

So no Pret, coffee made in the office, packed lunches from home, drank tap water.
No takeaways or evenings out so they worked extra shifts instead rather than sit around moaning about it.
No holidays
Good on them, they worked bloody hard .

The issue isn't that Millenials can't buy a house, most that I know have, it's interest rates that are causing issues now.

JassyRadlett · 28/03/2023 10:46

Ginmonkeyagain · 28/03/2023 10:31

On noise as well the block is u shaped so there are stairwells, lifts and cupboards between most flats, which limits noise transmission. We don't share walls with any other flat which means is is blissfully quiet - we can hear the birds in the morning and litle else.

Properly designed flats are amazing aren't they? I know lots of friends in eg Brussels, Berlin etc wouldn't dream of moving from their lovely flats.

Conversely when we moved 'out' to what was affordable to buy, what we could afford was a flat in a Victorian conversion - cold, noisy, cramped. When it came time for us to have more space (we had a baby by then and wanted another, and the flat we had definitely wasn't suitable for a family) the only option we had for a decent 3-bed or the option for any 4-bed was a house.

LakieLady · 28/03/2023 10:48

Albiboba · 27/03/2023 08:24

Well if you are looking at home ownership then obviously. You can’t argue that it isn’t in good faith. Average salaries vs average property costs are more expensive multiple times over than they were decades ago. Even when you consider previous interest rates.

Absolutely. I'm a boomer, and my first house was less than 5 times my annual income. I just checked on Zoopla, and they estimate the value of those houses at £380k-£420k now. To buy with the same earnings:price ratio, you'd need to be on £70-80k.

We were also able to get a grant go to uni, fees were covered and there was no student debt. And if you didn't go to uni, you could still train for many professions while working. I have friends who trained as civil engineers, social workers and accountants by doing day release and sandwich courses, while working.

bruffin · 28/03/2023 10:54

My DS is 27 and just bought a 2bed flat in Herts .
He inherited about 20k from his GP in his teens but saved and got a deposit of over 60k,.
He like my friends DC took advantage of COVID and saved while they couldn't go out out and spend money

LakieLady · 28/03/2023 10:56

The Sunaks, Bushes, Reagans, Thatchers, Johnsons, Camerons and Trumps of this world wouldn’t be where they are and able to enact unequal policies if boomers hadn’t, time and again, voted for them en masse.

Not all boomers, @Knullrufs. I've never voted Tory, nor have any of my boomer friends. The only reason I don't vote Labour now is because I live in an LD/Tory marginal, so vote LD tactically.

Wifflywafflywoo · 28/03/2023 11:04

Pretty sure I'm a millennial, I got my first job at 16 working part time in a supermarket. Quickly realised I could juggle full time hours plus school (evening shifts and full weekends) if I wanted to, continued working full time (some weeks more) throughout university and by the time I was 22 I'd saved enough to cover my uni fees plus a 30k deposit for a house. Three bed semi £138k (NE).

I only managed because my parents housed me without rent (I did as much as I could housework wise for them) as they knew I was working hard to save.

The sacrifice was I completely missed out on everything social. I had pretty much no friends left by the time I started uni as I was always at work and through uni I only really had people I saw there. I left my lectures, got straight onto the bus and into work. I met some great people at work that I'm still friends with now but looking back I do regret not having more fun.

I'm still in the house now, 12 years later and when I look at other people my age struggling to buy I do thank god that I'm on the ladder. It's a total money pit and until I met my DP I was barely scraping by but I've always been so grateful to have my own home. It's only gone up about 10k in value but I have the equity should we look at moving.

I bought my first ever laptop of my own last month, absolutely delighted!

I credit being brought up mainly by my grandparents for my mentality money wise, my brother on the other hand is also a millennial and burns through cash like no one's business then whines that he's skint!

FrostyFifi · 28/03/2023 11:11

I agree it would be amazing if they build flats properly. It's absolutely horrible having to live with intrusive neighbour noise, really bad for people's mental health.

LakieLady · 28/03/2023 11:16

Wedoronron · 27/03/2023 09:53

The number one issue is that houses became seen as an investment.
Successive Tory governments have made homeowner a priority (largely because they know homeowners are more likely to vote Blue). Thatcher decide to destroy the social housing sector. New Labour ensured it continued.
I worked in housing for decades and the devastation it has caused is awful.
Rents are so high. The same house I first rented in my current city has gone from £110 a month to £1020 a month (as of a couple of months ago). Average wages were £18k in 2000 when I rented. They have not gone up to £180k (10 times as much in line with rent) but gone up to £33k not even double.
With rents this high people will be stuck.

"Right to Buy" council homes and refusing to let councils use the receipts from sales to build more houses has played a large part in the astronomical rise in rents and house prices imo. And the fact that private sector tenants have no meaningful security of tenure has driven people to buy if they possibly can.

We need a massive programme of building social housing. After all, it pays for itself in the medium-long term, once the rental income has repaid the build costs, and would reduce demand for homes to buy, making them more affordable over time.

Frabbits · 28/03/2023 11:17

My first flat cost £100k 20 years ago, and I was able to buy that with a 5% deposit, so 5k, on a grad starting salary of just over 20k in my industry.

It took me 3 years to save that 5k and the only reason I could get a mortgage at the time was because this was pre the really tight affordability checks which now exist.

The exact same flat sold last year for 250k, so that deposit is now 12.5k, average starting salary is now ~25k in my industry. So that's 10x multiplier on that mortgage with no chance in hell that someone could buy that flat now in the same circumstances even if they could save 12.5k for the deposit in anything approaching a reasonable timespan.

Cutting down on a daily coffee is going to make fuck all difference to that.

pixie5121 · 28/03/2023 11:28

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at poster's request.

LakieLady · 28/03/2023 11:35

There's plenty of over 50's developments, schemes for cheaper houses that boomers could retire into. They don't want those properties though... they want bungalows, if they are going to downsize at all. Completely missing the irony in deciding those properties aren't to their taste, whilst telling the rest of us that we should be grateful for whatever home we can get.

One of my friends has recently moved into a retirement flat. Her service charges are £4k a year. Other places she looked at ranged between £2.5k and £3.8k. They weren't especially high end or luxurious.

I'm still working, but when I can no longer do that, my pension income will be £12.5k at current rates. I couldn't afford to pay 20% of my income in service charges, plus council tax (approx £1.5k), energy bills etc. Retirement homes are simply not affordable for many older people.

And wanting to move to a bungalow rather than a cheap house isn't necessarily just because they fancy a bungalow. I'm unlikely to be able to manage stairs in 10-15 years time, so buying a bungalow may well mean I'm able to continue to live independently for longer, and avoid having costly adaptations carried out.