To think that a three year jail sentence is unreasonable for the disabled pedestrian who was found guilty of causing the death of a cyclist

[DotAndCarryOne2]

The Sunday Times and The Guardian carried this story earlier this month and again today, as did GB News. Link is below. I just find it unbelievable that so much relevant information about this lady’s disability was either ignored or dismissed by the judge, and that she didn’t have adequate representation at sentencing.
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjj6omaqvr9AhWJbcAKHVv9DMkQFnoECAkQAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk%2Fhome-news%2Fcyclist-manslaughter-auriol-grey-cambridgeshire-b2294507.html&usg=AOvVaw1yOHhh6F4zfEel6m4EMYpL

<bangs head against brick wall>

You don't have to lock people up, that's a last resort

Thats. What. Im. Saying.

If locking up isn’t the solution (nor should it be) what is, that would ah e prevented her from harming someone?

The key is she needed therapeutic interventions before crisis point such as adaptive cognitive behavioural therapy and positive behaviour support planning.

For the third time - how do you know that didn’t happen?

And why do you think carrying out all that would have stopped her killing someone?
This word salad nonsense that so-called practitioners trot out that means literally nothing is a big part of why’ services are failing.

How do you know what interventions she may have received?

Also what makes you think that, before the killing, Grey was at ‘crisis point’. Being gobby to teenagers and also being disabled is not a crisis from a social work POV

I have multiple cognitively impaired, aggressive dialysis unit patients in my unit. Some known to probation services, some not. All known to our liaison psychiatrist and various community teams.

If you seriously think everyone with a history of verbal, or even physical aggression and some underlying medical problems gets admission to a long term care unit, you need to spend some more time working in community services.

The partially-sighted guy with brain damage from a previous cardiac arrest who punched a hole in the unit wall last week is known to everyone, probation, psychiatry, neurology, substance misuse services, the works. Still free to cancel his care package, fail to attend dialysis appointments, and get brought in to A&E by the police when he’s found collapsed on a bench in town.

I’m seriously questioning the claimed credentials of the people here who reckon ‘it wasn’t her fault - she should have had therapy that she definitely didn’t have so it’s the fault of the Papworth Trust’.

Maybe…just maybe…she did a stupid thing that ended in tragedy which no one could have foresaw and that had absolutely no bearing on her being anything other than a hobby righteous cow

She will have 3 years to reflect on how being gobby and bad tempered gets you nowhere (or at least nowhere good).
That poor lady’s family have a lifetime of missing her.

@TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl yes, a few people are determined to try to absolve AG of responsibility and claim she must have been failed by someone else/ some agency/ or hang on let's just blame the cyclist; anything except actually holding AG accountable for her behaviour

But isn’t that what those agencies are there for ? To risk assess and try to prevent events such as these ? Otherwise what’s the point of them ? And if they let people down why should they escape blame ? Seems to me that this lady had clearly diagnosed conditions - cerebral palsy for one - that resulted in her being housed in a residential home for the disabled and then moved to an adapted flat. As such she would have been on the radar of the various agencies assigned to this field and yet despite her abusive behaviour and harassment of members of the public making her known to the police, they failed to ensure that she received the necessary support and safeguarding. And despite all this evidence to the contrary, most contributors here seem determined in their denial that there was any disability at all - even to the point of arguing with contributors who are clearly professionals in related fields.

Bollocks, no one has said she has no disabilities. She's got Cerebral palsy ffs!
It's equally true that the judge and jury who have seen all the evidence have convicted her of manslaughter.

@Lovelysausagedogscrumpy are you going to tell us which agencies have failed AG and how? Or are you making some cheap shot in vague terms to try to deflect from the facts of the case?

What intervention are you envisaging, exactly? An escort?

I have several patients who live in care homes, under a DOLS, unable to go out without supervision (due to significant executive function problems meaning they might get on a random bus and be unable to find their way back, or might go off with somebody). Escorts don’t grow on trees, so in practice this means they get a short, supervised walk once a week, and are locked in the home the rest of the time, unable to leave.

That is a SIGNIFICANT deprivation of somebody’s liberty, and you would need to show a significant risk in order to place somebody under that kind of DOLS. The idea that somebody who seems to be capable of living independently and doing her own shopping etc would be placed under that sort of restriction just for shouting at members of the public is just laughable, I’m sorry.

1. The police don’t need a crystal ball - it’s bleeding obvious that they failed her by not following protocol on safeguarding a clearly vulnerable person (living in disabled facility)
2. Various newspaper articles all reported that family members had stated their concerns to Papworth Trust that it wasn’t safe for her to live alone. And I would have thought it was obvious that the ‘evidence’ that she wasn’t fit to live alone was the fact that she spent her time harassing strangers and ended up causing the death of a woman by her out of control actions, all of which could have been avoided if the red flags had been acted upon
3. If they had referred to social services, it would have been mentioned at trial and there would have been a report to that effect. She would already have been on their radar so any police involvement should have been notified.
4. I think the OP was referring to risk assessment before the incident, not after, as if the proper procedures had been followed she may possibly have been moved back into residential supervised care.

And I don’t blame the OP for turning off notifications, this is a dreadful, hostile thread and contains some outrageous attitudes towards mental health. If MN moderators are watching, I think it should be taken down.

I really don’t think she should have been given a jail sentence. She waved her hand in front of the cyclists way to basically tell her to get off the payment. Cyclist swerved and got knocked over. Are they going to change the person who was driving the car then? It doesn’t make much sense to me tbh

That is actually disgusting!! Don't you think the poor woman who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time, has suffered enough, and will continue to suffer for the rest of her life - through absolutely no fault of her own?

You are sick!!

The driver was as much a victim as the cyclist. It was the pedestrian who knocked the cyclist into the driver’s path.

Stop being an apologist. The court was well aware of her disability and found it didn’t absolve her guilt. auriol is pure evil. She had enough physical ability to push a moving cyclist ffs! One she didn’t even need to push, I might add. There is no evidence the cyclist was about to make contact with her.

What are you on about

Why is it laughable ? She was living in a supervised residential care setting before Papworth Trust made the decision to move her out into one of their adapted independent flats. There had to be a reason for that and had her behaviour been brought to the attention of social services they would possibly have recommended that she be moved back to the supervised environment. That would have been a start.

And that’s fair enough. However I wonder what would have happened if the outcome had been different.

Say the woman threw her arm in the air towards the cyclist but the cyclist applied the brake’s, would she be charged with something? If the cyclist had fallen into the road but the road was empty, would the pedestrian have been charged with attempted murder?

I think what the woman did was unnecessary as she could have just carried on walking past the cyclist. But a prison sentence? You’d think it was the same situation of the woman walking on the road and the cyclist pushed her into the path of a bus (bus swerved and woman survived.) That was done intentionally to harm the woman, I don’t believe the pedestrian wanted to intentionally harm her at all.

Saying that, someone’s lost their life so there has to be some sort of consequence. I just think the whole situation is insane

Papworth Trust for starters. They moved her out into an adapted flat to live alone, after she had lived in supervised residential disabled accommodation and they did it despite objections from her family that it wasn’t safe to do so. Then the police, for failing to follow standard safeguarding procedures. They spoke to her several times and would have known she was on social services radar by her involvement with Papworth Trust. At the end of the day she was a vulnerable person, why didn’t they report their contact with her to them so that they could provide the necessary support ?

That’s my point exactly. A schizophrenic kills some one - well it’s not really their fault is it. But they would pretty much indefinitely be locked away. It doesn’t matter what the cause of the brain injury or brain problem (schizophrenia or mental health) is. The point is she is clearly dangerous and has no regard for other life, or cannot understand that pushing someone into a road could cause death. Either way. It’s an issue. Compared to schizophrenics with a slightly different brain ‘problem’ well she’s got off lightly is what I am saying. It’s not difficult to understand the comparison.

She pushed the cyclist into the road. The public have not seen the full video as it is too shocking. This was made clear by the senior officer on the case. The jury saw the whole video.
This has been rehashed thoroughly on here and in the police report.
I don't know why people keep saying she waved her hand at the cyclist.
A woman is dead and the poor car driver is traumatised and her marriage has broken down.
I doubt that she will serve the full sentence and I am sure all the relevant services are involved in looking at where she should live when she comes out.

The woman, regardless of her disability, is a proven danger to society. Unless Papworth Trust or the police had a crystal ball and had her supervised 24/7 with no independent walks and dedicated full time carerS who could physically restrain her at any time, she would still be a danger to society.

She killed a person. A three year sentence is lenient for that, IMO. Frankly, prison is not meant to be nice. I bet the woman whom she was threw under the car would take three years any day over the violent death she endured.

She should be locked up, she did a wrong thing, but I do think in a specialised mental health institution.

You could say that about anything.

a driver pulls out a j7ncion without looking properly and causes a minor bump, no consequence for the driver. The driver pulls out and hits another car at 5mph and the occupant of the car he hits dies then the driver gets charged with causing death by dangerous driving and potentially goes to prison.

a train guard doesn’t check the platform carefully before telling the driver to leave but nobody is there so no consequences. Same thing but this time a drunk person is on the platform leaning against the train and dies and the guard is charged with manslaughter.

both true cases.

so yes, if the outcome had been different then the consequences for Grey would have been different. You can’t get charged with manslaughter if nobody dies obviously. 🤷‍♀️. But she did die. Most people would reasonable expect that if you lunge towards a cyclist and make “light contact” right next to a busy ring road then there’s a good chance the cyclist might swerve.

Yup .
I am calling it. A relative for sure