To think that adults are much less resilient than they used to be

[louease]

First of all I'll admit that I'm on the older side of 60 so the weight of my belt onion could be effecting my judgement on this.

I see a lot on social media including here where people say they are upset at words they read on a screen, that they've been triggered, or that it should have a warning attached.

Are we making the world harder to live in by trying to make it too comfortable do you think?

Ah, got it. Thx.

I also referred to MN threads but not in that context.

Where did I say it was healthy? I just said they weren’t offered therapy. I’m truly sorry for your grandfather’s experience. They were an incredibly brave generation who sacrificed their lives and health to defeat fascism and then dealt with the after-effects alone.

Imagine if we had to fight WWII now - half the adults would be too fat the other half would be too triggered.

Great. No fighting!

TBH I see a lot more people complaining about woke snowflakes than I actually see woke snowflakes themselves.

You're entirely right.

I suppose I had innate resilience which got me through my awful childhood right up to my mid 20s, but something acted as the proverbial 'straw that broke the camel's back' when I was 26.

I then went through an awful two years before, ironically, I unexpectedly lost the relative I loved the most and the shock snapped me out of it. I had to really work to get my drive and resilience back, however, as well as my self-respect.

Everyone who only knew me in those two years probably thought I was a lost cause.

Since then, I've tried to help out friends who truly did/do lack resilience, but have been burnt quite a few times for my efforts. Some people just need a bit of (or a lot of) help and encouragement, while others seem to enjoy wallowing in self-pity and their perceived weakness and helplessness that they never truly go forward with their lives.

"They don’t accept other peoples’ opinions and when you try to give an opinion, they shoot you down in flames if it isn’t in line with their ‘woke’ agenda. 😩"

She says, whilst not accepting the younger peoples' opinions.

Exactly this! I've yet to meet one of these snowflakes who are dismantling society, one offended cry at a time.

Conversely - plenty of people moaning about them on here.

@HamBone nope no one poster specifically otherwise i would have tagged you as i cant quote, annoying. I don't know how else to say it: citing posting habits on one forum is not robust supporting evidence. It's weak anecdata but it's presented with a flourish as if it's a QED situation. In my opinion. Of course.

*annoyingly. Not calling you annoying @HamBone ! I'm just a crap typer 🤣

I'm probably about the same age as you, and I think YABU to (a) equate reactions to 'bad words' to general resilience; (b) think that this has changed fundamentally, rather than in detail, over the years; and (c) to imply that 'making things too comfortable' for people decreases resilience.

(a) Resilience refers to the ability to cope with life in general, rather than whether you do or don't make a fuss about someone using the wrong words. FWIW, I DO think that people often make too much fuss about what words people use, rather than their actions and basic attitudes. And this was always the case (see (b)). But it has little or nothing to do with resilience,

(b) People have always made a fuss about 'rude words': at one time, it was a terrible taboo to say 'damn' or 'bloody'. And certain topics, like politics, religion, sex and money were often taboo. Obviously, people didn't make a fuss about words on screens before there were screens in the modern sense. But blasphemy laws in the UK were not abolished until- wait for it- 2008!

(c) I certainly don't think that, in general, resilience is decreased by having things made 'too comfortable'. Of course, it depends what you mean by 'too comfortable' and whom you mean. Probably being totally sheltered from all unpleasant facts of life would make you less resilient. But the way it's often used is to imply that any accommodation - 'pandering' as it's often termed in this context- to people's weaknesses (physical, mental or caused by the situation, e.g. financial crisis) will just encourage their weakness. And I think that the opposite is usually true. I have some relatively mild physical disabilities, and because nowadays people are usually willing to assist me when needed, I can lead a pretty normal life and work very hard. When I was younger, and there were more people who thought that (as someone once put it to me) 'such help is a gift and not a right', my disabilities restricted me far more and made me less resilient. Unfortunately, people with the same disabilities who also come from poor backgrounds are often still treated as undeserving, which often makes them less resilient.

What is true is that security is often more important than comfort in determining resilience. Many people who worked in tough manual occupations, but with the security of permanent employment and regular pay, were probably more resilient than many people nowadays who are in lighter, but more insecure, employment,

People in real life seem pretty robust. Social media gives a bit of a skewed impression.

I think you’re very judgemental. You’re from a generation who had it easy. You didn’t live through WW2, property was affordable and people with ‘normal’ jobs could buy a house fairly comfortably. Many households managed on one income.

I think you should try to develop some empathy.

I'd like to say I agree with you... but I can't.

Yes, these things are called out for being unacceptable today, but by the time I was in my 20s and very early 30s, when I was experiencing said abusive relationships, we as a society were already calling such relationships out for being wrong, and still, no-one who knew what was going on actually came to my rescue - I ultimately had to help myself.

If fewer children were treated like I was (and worse) than before, I'd be delighted... but it's not the case. All we need to do is look into the papers and see how many people are or have recently been on trial for murdering and/or abusing their children/their partner's children, or for allowing the abuse to happen.

As for bullying... how many threads are on Mumsnet, started by parents desperate for advice on how to help their bullied children, are there?

All the 'calling out ' in the world won't stop all bullies, abusers, rapists and murderers from doing what they do. What it does do, at least, is perhaps makes more people aware that such people do exist.

(Btw, my original point was kind of lost - I meant that there are too many people these days, my age, slightly older, a bit younger, who simply fall to pieces in face of any and all opposition or challenges, and that it seems there are far more people who lack resilience than before.)

That's what my DH says!! Imagine the safety assessments for going over the top... the myriad reasons why people couldn't fight. Not saying that's a bad thing because why should people be forced to go to war, but we're pretty fooked if such a thing happened. There's no way younger generations would meekly and obediently trot out in their millions to be maimed/traumatised or killed. I do really wonder about the mindset of those who did - but then education was much less available, there was much more of a community spirit and duty was something one must accept.

I'm soon to enter my 7th decade (HTF did that happen?!!) and I regard myself as tolerant and broadminded, but there's some things that have just gone a step too far for me, like trans women playing women's team sports etc. because that's physically and practically unfair - some may disagree.

On that point, I find that disagreement/healthy debate is an issue - there's so little respect for opposing positions. There's also the constant effort involved in taking offence at things. Sometimes you're literally afraid to open your mouth in case you say the wrong thing.

@traytablestowed I’m not entirely sure what a snowflake is either.

I’m think the term refers to people who get upset if someone declares an opposing opinion and tries to shut down free speech? I read about these student protests against a judge speaking at their campus-are these snowflakes?

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/stanford-mandates-free-speech-training-after-protest-of-us-judge

I was a child in the 50s. It was grey and lots of it was boring, Sundays with everything closed for example. I have to protest about the lard and tripe though as I've never eaten either.

Never ate tripe but the nicest chips EVER were the ones fried in lard in your chip pan!

I think some of it is useful - like the trigger warnings on some posts on mumsnet that the topic is about sexual assault or child abuse.

But I think that the unwillingness of some young people to hear opinions - or facts - that they don't agree with is unhealthy, for civil society and for the individuals themselves.

The issues of trans rights shows the extreme - that acknowleding that a transwoman was not born a boy can be considered to be 'literal violence' is bizzare - it's a fact, but one that transactivists don't like, so they don't want to anyone to be able say it.

But being open about issues doesn't seem to be helping does it? We appear to have an epidemic of young people unable to deal with life even on a very basic level, who have way more opportunities to be open about their trauma. Their feelings are validated as never before, but it's not making anything better.

This is just your chosen conclusion most likely based off of social media though. It's not reality.

Interestingly these articles have been shared in our slack groups at work which kind of cover this, they are american as I work for an American company but it is becoming widely observed now.

How to Understand the Well-Being Gap between Liberals and Conservatives - American Affairs Journal

Of Course You Know What "Woke" Means - Freddie deBoer (substack.com)

My dad and his brother joined up because they were teenagers and saw war as a great adventure. My grandfathers both joined up, underage, in WWI for the same reason. I imagine lots of 18 to 25 year olds would be the same now. At that age you don't think so much of dying. Young men have gone over to Ukraine to fight and I imagine their motivation is much the same.

I think the idea of things being 'triggering' has been appropriated by some people who want to control the thoughts, speech and actions of others, and bend the world to their own preferences. These are the individuals who will try to shut down any conversation they dislike, or any activities they don't wish to participate in by claiming to be 'triggered'. In our current be kind culture, causing someone to be triggered is a huge faux pas calling for immediate withdrawal of offending opinion or undesired activity on pain of being cancelled.
I do think though that these manipulative people are a vocal minority though, usually found on line. In the real world I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim to be triggered, and the people I know seem pretty resilient.

My kids are in that exact age group now and I can't imagine any of them joining up voluntarily. Nor would I want them to.

I suppose a lot of the horrors of the wars only emerged afterwards when people took stock.

It seems to me that people are encouraged to be more open about stuff these days, but is there any real support out there? Has the situation really improved in the last 10, 20, 30 years? When you get down to the life-changing nitty-gritty, can people actually be helped, or are resources not put into it & provision/attitudes still bad?

And sometimes there's a lot to be said for keeping things to yourself in general social situations, fitting in & getting along with people as best you can - & then dealing with your own 'stuff' privately, whether that be thinking about it, reading up on it, phoning helplines, talking to a friend or family member or seeing a therapist or counsellor.

These days it seems people are encouraged/allowed to tell everyone their problems in every situation. This seems to me a bad thing in many ways.
It's disruptive & can be very inappropriate; it focusses attention on one person, when others may be having an equally hard time; it can lead to the Oppression Olympics; it puts the onus on other people to solve the situation or take some action, instead of the individual with the problem; other people aren't equipped to deal with everybody's problems.

There also seem to be fatuous ideas around like 'Smile at someone - you might save them from suicide' (I've seen that one displayed on a poster), or the introduction of mental first aiders or whatever they're called, which seems useless & fraught with potential social/legal/confidentiality/supervision problems.

And don't get me started on 'Be Kind'.😂