Page 22 | To say no to OH increasing child maintenance

Nastyurtium · 2023-03-22T15:26:20+00:00

Need a sanity check here. OH pays maintenance at CMS level to his ex for their three children. We have them every other weekend and half the holidays and provide everything they need whilst they’re here, as well as paying half of school uniform and trip costs. I earn double OH’s salary and pay around 75% of our household costs. He is paying off joint debt from his first marriage; I pay for the children’s holidays, clothes and hobbies whilst with us. We live ninety minutes from the children (his ex moved after the split and this is as close as we can be with OH working in his field - if we weren’t worried about proximity, we could both earn double living further away in the UK). His ex has been commenting a lot on the children costing more as they grow up (they’re primary age), the cost of living going up and the fact that she’s had another baby so can’t work as much, and I’m expecting a formal request for more maintenance money soon. We have a cordial relationship. She has a partner, who is self-employed and she works some hours for his business. I don’t know a lot about their finances but they take more holidays than us and seem to have a similar lifestyle, albeit in a cheaper region. We’d happily have the children for more of the holidays or even full-time but this has always been refused. AIBU to just say no? If OH was paying half our living costs, it’d be his choice, but he isn’t and has nothing left at the end of each month, so realistically any increase would be coming from my salary.

Original poster

Nastyurtium · 25/03/2023 16:49

On the debt: no, I don’t know exactly what it was for, other than the car and furniture she kept. OH is clueless* *with money and his ex managed the household finances, giving him a monthly allowance from his wages. The first time he set up a direct debit was after they split. He’s learning now, better late than never.

Their third son was unplanned and a few months before they split, they’d apparently had a big argument about money. She wanted him to get a higher paid job; he wanted her to get a job as the youngest was no longer a baby. He later found out that within a month of that argument, the affair started.

As someone who has always been financially independent, I do find the dynamic of having babies, staying home and being reliant on someone else’s wage for most of your ‘working’ life to be quite an alien concept. But clearly it works for her and presumably her partner is happier to support it than OH was.

OP posts:

mandlerparr · 25/03/2023 16:59

If you had read the entire thing, I took out the taxes, making his take home from that income before any other deductions 1935 per month. And when I put that income and what we know (3 kids, has them about 75-100 days per year) they gave me an estimate of 391 CMS payment for him per month. Which is very close to what OP said CMS calculated his payments are. So, I am damn close in my calculations of his income according to what we have been told by OP. If anything, I have underestimated his income and take home.

mandlerparr · 25/03/2023 17:01

This is because a low-earning father who is faithful to his family gives up a lot more than 400 per month and 25% additional.

Wellillsayitifnoonelsewill · 25/03/2023 17:02

Nastyurtium · 25/03/2023 16:49

On the debt: no, I don’t know exactly what it was for, other than the car and furniture she kept. OH is clueless* *with money and his ex managed the household finances, giving him a monthly allowance from his wages. The first time he set up a direct debit was after they split. He’s learning now, better late than never.

Their third son was unplanned and a few months before they split, they’d apparently had a big argument about money. She wanted him to get a higher paid job; he wanted her to get a job as the youngest was no longer a baby. He later found out that within a month of that argument, the affair started.

As someone who has always been financially independent, I do find the dynamic of having babies, staying home and being reliant on someone else’s wage for most of your ‘working’ life to be quite an alien concept. But clearly it works for her and presumably her partner is happier to support it than OH was.

That third baby definitely his?

mandlerparr · 25/03/2023 17:09

They are definitely not with dad 50% of the year. Because factoring what OP has said with what CMS is, for them to be with him 50%, his income would either be much lower than what is said or CMS would be much lower.

Blossomtoes · 25/03/2023 17:12

mandlerparr · 25/03/2023 17:01

This is because a low-earning father who is faithful to his family gives up a lot more than 400 per month and 25% additional.

His ex had an affair. There’s no hint that he did.

I also did the CMS calculation and it gave me £400 pm on a gross salary of £36k - which is £3k above the average salary. He’s also paying another £400 to the joint debt with his ex who retains the assets for which that debt has accrued.

Yoyo2021 · 25/03/2023 17:26

Nastyurtium · 25/03/2023 16:49

On the debt: no, I don’t know exactly what it was for, other than the car and furniture she kept. OH is clueless* *with money and his ex managed the household finances, giving him a monthly allowance from his wages. The first time he set up a direct debit was after they split. He’s learning now, better late than never.

Their third son was unplanned and a few months before they split, they’d apparently had a big argument about money. She wanted him to get a higher paid job; he wanted her to get a job as the youngest was no longer a baby. He later found out that within a month of that argument, the affair started.

As someone who has always been financially independent, I do find the dynamic of having babies, staying home and being reliant on someone else’s wage for most of your ‘working’ life to be quite an alien concept. But clearly it works for her and presumably her partner is happier to support it than OH was.

Of course it works for her she has three children to look after and household.
It wouldn’t be worth it with childcare either Stop looking your nose
down at her times are hard.

I think the problem here is you. You earn double than your partner and he comes with debt problems and un able to pay for his children.

A lot of your income is being spent on him and his kids you’re not his mother.

You have only heard his side not hers like you say ‘apparently’.

Perhaps he needs to start looking for a better paid job or two jobs to get out of the debt he is in.

Or perhaps you have the children more often.

In regards to the ‘Debt’ you say you are un sure what it is all for. I suggest you sit down cards on the table and him show you every debt, bank statement, credit score and you see what can be written off or supported out. Got a feeling you may have some nasty shocks.

Blossomtoes · 25/03/2023 17:38

The first wives’ club is out in force today @Yoyo2021. Did you bother to read OP’s other posts?

The ex has chosen not to work, her family is willing to provide childcare
The ex had an affair and now has a fourth child with her affair partner
The ex refuses to increase contract
He’s not unable to pay for his children, he pays the CMS ordained amount

adriftinadenofvipers · 25/03/2023 17:42

Yoyo2021 · 25/03/2023 17:26

Of course it works for her she has three children to look after and household.
It wouldn’t be worth it with childcare either Stop looking your nose
down at her times are hard.

I think the problem here is you. You earn double than your partner and he comes with debt problems and un able to pay for his children.

A lot of your income is being spent on him and his kids you’re not his mother.

You have only heard his side not hers like you say ‘apparently’.

Perhaps he needs to start looking for a better paid job or two jobs to get out of the debt he is in.

Or perhaps you have the children more often.

In regards to the ‘Debt’ you say you are un sure what it is all for. I suggest you sit down cards on the table and him show you every debt, bank statement, credit score and you see what can be written off or supported out. Got a feeling you may have some nasty shocks.

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Maybe the cheating ex should have given the matter some thought before fecklessly deciding to add #4 to the mix then?!

funinthesun19 · 25/03/2023 17:52

But clearly it works for her and presumably her partner is happier to support it than OH was.

That‘s on them then. If that’s their chosen dynamic after having their shared child, then they can cut their cloth to make it happen. It definitely isn’t up to you to facilitate your DH in giving her more money, especially because ultimately she needs it more due to having another baby and her household costs have gone up as a result.

Yoyo2021 · 25/03/2023 18:00

Blossomtoes · 25/03/2023 17:38

The first wives’ club is out in force today @Yoyo2021. Did you bother to read OP’s other posts?

The ex has chosen not to work, her family is willing to provide childcare
The ex had an affair and now has a fourth child with her affair partner
The ex refuses to increase contract
He’s not unable to pay for his children, he pays the CMS ordained amount

Gosh is this bloke even worth it !

T1Dmama · 25/03/2023 19:05

Wellillsayitifnoonelsewill · 25/03/2023 16:43

It was my post and then a couple of people backed me up. Yes for the difference in days they are with dad up to the 50% a year (as obviously they can’t do a 50/50 shared custody as mum decided to move the kids further away after she shagged someone else) he pays her £55/day for the kids.

thats on top of the school uniforms/trips/music lessons etc etc etc plus her £200 half of the marital debt that’s still outstanding.

but apparently he’s a bad dad 🤣

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I think he’s paying above and beyond what he needs to. He pays what the child Maintenance says he should, plus her half of the debt, plus uniform haircuts, after school activities and trips etc…
He moved closer to be nearer his kids… he can’t be any better without OP paying for his kids!…. Why can’t the new bloke contribute?? He shagged her knowing the kids were part of the deal!

Wellillsayitifnoonelsewill · 25/03/2023 19:29

T1Dmama · 25/03/2023 19:05

I think he’s paying above and beyond what he needs to. He pays what the child Maintenance says he should, plus her half of the debt, plus uniform haircuts, after school activities and trips etc…
He moved closer to be nearer his kids… he can’t be any better without OP paying for his kids!…. Why can’t the new bloke contribute?? He shagged her knowing the kids were part of the deal!

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I know!! I can’t understand the vitriol. It’s like people are saying just because kids live with mum dad should pay for EVERYTHING all the time. Do mums stop suddenly being 50% responsible after a break up

Biilie82 · 25/03/2023 20:19

Nastyurtium · 25/03/2023 16:49

On the debt: no, I don’t know exactly what it was for, other than the car and furniture she kept. OH is clueless* *with money and his ex managed the household finances, giving him a monthly allowance from his wages. The first time he set up a direct debit was after they split. He’s learning now, better late than never.

Their third son was unplanned and a few months before they split, they’d apparently had a big argument about money. She wanted him to get a higher paid job; he wanted her to get a job as the youngest was no longer a baby. He later found out that within a month of that argument, the affair started.

As someone who has always been financially independent, I do find the dynamic of having babies, staying home and being reliant on someone else’s wage for most of your ‘working’ life to be quite an alien concept. But clearly it works for her and presumably her partner is happier to support it than OH was.

How about seeing as she has done her ex a massive favour, sacrificing her career to be at home with kids and then being able to do all the school runs, cover all school holidays etc. I would imagine he benefited from this when they were today? Was he able to work and profess his career, pay into a pension etc. all thinks he could do because of HER sacrifices.
You sue going to be in for a world of disappointment with this man if you make the mistake of having a child with him. It will also change your mind set on what his ex actually does. I don’t think you should be subsiding your partner, but I also don’t think you should be judging his ex. Your wake up call will come

Biilie82 · 25/03/2023 20:27

Nastyurtium · 25/03/2023 16:36

On whether the £400 covers their additional expenses: I think it probably does. We both have suitably sized houses to heat and run, we take them for most of their haircuts and buy anything medical they need, we pay for their music lessons and instruments, they have fully stocked wardrobes here and their mum usually gets second-hand bundles from friends. Childcare outside of school is by her family.

Additional water, electric and food for three small children probably is within £400 a month. I’m sure it wouldn’t cover it when they’re teenagers and eating like horses and wanting expensive clothes though.

You havnt included the higher gas and electric bill which will be must more for her due to the kids being there most of the time. She and her family provide childcare, that’s very fortunate for your partner as he doesn’t have this expense to worry about. Clothes and hair cuts are a tiny part of it if we were to list the associated costs of raising a child. It’s so much more than what you describe.

Biilie82 · 25/03/2023 20:29

Yoyo2021 · 25/03/2023 18:00

Gosh is this bloke even worth it !

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Definitely not worth it!! 😂

Biilie82 · 25/03/2023 20:42

Nastyurtium · 25/03/2023 16:36

On whether the £400 covers their additional expenses: I think it probably does. We both have suitably sized houses to heat and run, we take them for most of their haircuts and buy anything medical they need, we pay for their music lessons and instruments, they have fully stocked wardrobes here and their mum usually gets second-hand bundles from friends. Childcare outside of school is by her family.

Additional water, electric and food for three small children probably is within £400 a month. I’m sure it wouldn’t cover it when they’re teenagers and eating like horses and wanting expensive clothes though.

Also, you are dreaming if you think this is sufficient just one example-?if they get school meals, you are looking at about £15 per day. So £75 per week, that’s nearly all of his maintenance gone. That’s just one example, there are soooooo many costa involved in raising children. Il bet my life that their mum spends more than 30 quid a week on each kid

Original poster

Nastyurtium · 25/03/2023 20:58

Biilie82 · 25/03/2023 20:42

Also, you are dreaming if you think this is sufficient just one example-?if they get school meals, you are looking at about £15 per day. So £75 per week, that’s nearly all of his maintenance gone. That’s just one example, there are soooooo many costa involved in raising children. Il bet my life that their mum spends more than 30 quid a week on each kid

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I did mention electricity in the post you quoted. They have a baby and she’s at home all day so I don’t think the electricity cost would be vastly different if the boys are there or not.

School dinners are £2.25 a day, and two of them are in KS1 so it’s free. So it’s £11.25 a week, not £75. They’re at school roughly 39 weeks a year so on average £36.50 a month. I acknowledged that costs will be more expensive as they get older; at the moment I very much doubt she spends £800 a month more on the children than we do.

OP posts:

Pupinski · 25/03/2023 21:12

Nastyurtium · 22/03/2023 15:53

We have offered to have the children more -campaigned for it actually! - but it’s always been a no. She’s always been the primary parent and was a SAHM when she and OH split.

No, she’s not paying off the joint debts because she says she can’t afford to and defaulting would impact OH’s credit rating too, so he’s just paying it. It should be cleared in a few years at which point he’ll a more equal amount to our household’s costs.

No, we don’t have our own children yet. We want to and are trying now, but had other things to sort first (buying and renovating our house, both have recently secured new jobs).

Has he increased his share of the cost of raising his children in line with the increased cost of living? Kids are expensive.

I have some sympathy for you but at the end of the day you presumably knew what the situation was when you hooked up with your partner.

Where you lose my sympathy is in "campaigning" to take the kids away from their mother for longer periods or even, I think you said, full time instead of increasing maintenance (which she hasn't actually asked for right?) It sounds uncomfortably like a transaction based around finances - almost like you're buying the kids off their mother. I doubt you're doing this to benefit the mother, for altruistic reasons, as you seem to be suggesting.

If the kids were to spend more of their time with your household you'd be spending more of your collective income on them than you are at the moment. Instead of doing the mother a "favour"
by offering to take the kids away from her to save her some money, just give that extra amount in maintenance.

mybeautifuloak · 25/03/2023 21:25

@Yoyo2021 In regards to the ‘Debt’ you say you are un sure what it is all for. I suggest you sit down cards on the table and him show you every debt, bank statement, credit score and you see what can be written off or supported out. Got a feeling you may have some nasty shocks.
Do you regularly make stuff up in your head and then bash people on the basis of the imagined scenario you have created? Weird.

The Ex had an affair and left when the dc were little. Nothing stopping her getting a job and paying her half of the debts (you know, the debts that you have bizarrely decided you know secrets about). Why should DH get a higher paying job? Why can't the ex get a job and start paying her debts. She and DB can figure out how to pay for childcare. Why is the OP paying fir so much when it appears the ex's partner who was her affair partner appears to be contributing so little?

whumpthereitis · 25/03/2023 21:33

Pupinski · 25/03/2023 21:12

Has he increased his share of the cost of raising his children in line with the increased cost of living? Kids are expensive.

I have some sympathy for you but at the end of the day you presumably knew what the situation was when you hooked up with your partner.

Where you lose my sympathy is in "campaigning" to take the kids away from their mother for longer periods or even, I think you said, full time instead of increasing maintenance (which she hasn't actually asked for right?) It sounds uncomfortably like a transaction based around finances - almost like you're buying the kids off their mother. I doubt you're doing this to benefit the mother, for altruistic reasons, as you seem to be suggesting.

If the kids were to spend more of their time with your household you'd be spending more of your collective income on them than you are at the moment. Instead of doing the mother a "favour"
by offering to take the kids away from her to save her some money, just give that extra amount in maintenance.

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At no point does accepting the situation mean that she is in any way responsible for paying maintenance. She’s willing to spend more on the children if they’re in her home, that’s it. The mother can take it or leave it 🤷🏻‍♀️

GreenSunfish · 25/03/2023 21:50

Nastyurtium · 25/03/2023 16:36

On whether the £400 covers their additional expenses: I think it probably does. We both have suitably sized houses to heat and run, we take them for most of their haircuts and buy anything medical they need, we pay for their music lessons and instruments, they have fully stocked wardrobes here and their mum usually gets second-hand bundles from friends. Childcare outside of school is by her family.

Additional water, electric and food for three small children probably is within £400 a month. I’m sure it wouldn’t cover it when they’re teenagers and eating like horses and wanting expensive clothes though.

Wait until you have your own kids and then see how far £400 goes for 3 kids. Last month for 2 kids going to after school 3 days per week I spent £396. It’s not just the cost of kids, it’s the fact you can’t work sometimes because of the price of childcare care or get promotions because you’re part time or frazzled. OP, I’m not suggesting you pay for another woman’s kids, absolutely not, but you cannot seriously argue that £400 per month is enough for 3 kids.

MzHz · 25/03/2023 22:09

Thing is @GreenSunfish the amount her dp pays is based on HIS circumstances

his ex should have kids she can afford to keep without expecting him to pick up yet more of her tab.

HamBone · 25/03/2023 22:16

@GreenSunfish I don’t think it’s enough either, but where would more money come from? The OP is already housing the Dad and paying 75% of their household costs. I presume the rest of his salary is used for his 25% share and when the children are with him.

The only way to increase what’s available is to pay off the debt and free up that money (which he’s doing); get a better job/second job (which he could definitely try to do) or their Mum gets a job.

whumpthereitis · 25/03/2023 22:41

GreenSunfish · 25/03/2023 21:50

Wait until you have your own kids and then see how far £400 goes for 3 kids. Last month for 2 kids going to after school 3 days per week I spent £396. It’s not just the cost of kids, it’s the fact you can’t work sometimes because of the price of childcare care or get promotions because you’re part time or frazzled. OP, I’m not suggesting you pay for another woman’s kids, absolutely not, but you cannot seriously argue that £400 per month is enough for 3 kids.

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If it’s all the parents can afford, it has to be enough. This is true of both nuclear and blended families.

As is stands, £400 was seemingly sufficient until the point she decided to have another child. Yes there is the cost of living crisis, but again, that is more manageable with three children instead of four.